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Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

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Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#51
post #16

This article glows.

The idea that Iranians are marching in the streets begging for a monarchy is so absurd only the dumbest will believe it. And specifically they are "dying" to bring back the clown prince, son of a foreign puppet that was deposed by their parents/grandparents. Afraid the zionist controlled media has already set the stage for an Iraq level invasion, using their propaganda machine, to install the guy they control.

> The idea that Iranians are marching in the streets begging for a monarchy is so absurd only the dumbest will believe it.

What they are begging for is change. What they know practically is basically two forms of government in modern memory. It would not be unusual to advocate for the other alternate you know or your grandparents have told you about.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is two things are true at once: 1) Iran's government has not done a good job of running the country and is therefore genuinely unpopular among a significant percentage of the population. 2) Iran's current government has powerful enemies (US, UK and of course a country in the Middle East all really hate the Iranian regime) and those enemies are actively trying to destabilise it. So it's really hard from th…

> it's really hard from the perspective of being in a western country to work out how much of the protests are genuinely endogenous to Iran and how much is an intelligence operation, because it's clearly not 0% Intelligence assets are generally covert. It's incredibly difficult to engineer a protest–particularly in a repressive regime–out of nothing. Like half of the CIA's history in the Cold War was trying and faili…

That's what I'm saying though, it's not out of nothing, people have legitimate grievances and at the same time there is probably at least some foreign influence. It's not either/or, it's (probably) a bit of both.

But like I said, I'm not there, so I don't know the truth and there's no way for me to find it out.

My basic point is just that you can't trust what you read in the papers because the Soviet Union is not the only state to engage in propaganda

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#53
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if anything the US is the real victim here, we constantly have to go cleaning up things over there at great expense.

This is a super-interesting point of view. Thank You! May I ask what source(s) of information and knowledge have made it possible for you to develop such a very clear conception of the complexities of the technologic, economic, politic, social, and cultural aspects of the question?

Read it again, maybe there's something you missed.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's really hard from the perspective of being in a western country to work out how much of the protests are genuinely endogenous to Iran and how much is an intelligence operation, because it's clearly not 0% Intelligence assets are generally covert. It's incredibly difficult to engineer a protest–particularly in a repressive regime–out of nothing. Like half of the CIA's history in the Cold War was trying and faili…

That's what I'm saying though, it's not out of nothing, people have legitimate grievances and at the same time there is probably at least some foreign influence. It's not either/or, it's (probably) a bit of both. But like I said, I'm not there, so I don't know the truth and there's no way for me to find it out. My basic point is just that you can't trust what you read in the papers because the Soviet Union is not the…

> It's not either/or, it's (probably) a bit of both

It's never purely one or the other. But it's also never predominantly foreign action. Again, it's incredibly difficult to do that, and not for lack of trying.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

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Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is two things are true at once: 1) Iran's government has not done a good job of running the country and is therefore genuinely unpopular among a significant percentage of the population. 2) Iran's current government has powerful enemies (US, UK and of course a country in the Middle East all really hate the Iranian regime) and those enemies are actively trying to destabilise it. So it's really hard from th…

> it's really hard from the perspective of being in a western country to work out how much of the protests are genuinely endogenous to Iran and how much is an intelligence operation, because it's clearly not 0% Intelligence assets are generally covert. It's incredibly difficult to engineer a protest–particularly in a repressive regime–out of nothing. Like half of the CIA's history in the Cold War was trying and faili…

> It's incredibly difficult to engineer a protest–particularly in a repressive regime–out of nothing.

No. It may have been difficult to do so in the past for the CIA (or other foreign powers) because they had limited avenues to directly influence foreign citizens as they had limited control over foreign media or foreign communication platforms (to control the flow of information).

Today, a large part of both communication and media in nearly all countries happen over the internet, a medium that has been usurped by western tech companies. The role of online social media (like Facebook and WhatsApp) in fomenting riots and genocide is well documented and researched (e.g. genocide in Myanmar).

Look at all the meaningless so called "youth protests" (youth who obviously have grown up consuming media and, communicating on the internet) that have happened in India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh or the "colour revolutions". (India was the only exception where it didn't turn violent because its then leaders knew how to genuinely deal democratically with the protestors, but it still resulted in India's democratic fall as it allowed a right-wing authoritarian leader to capture power). In Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh the protests became directionless violent "revolutions" to overthrow an elected government, and illegally transfer power to a bunch of inexperienced "leaders". Then (like what has happened in Bangladesh) they seek to exclude and ban certain political leaders and / or political parties from participating in a new "democratic" election, ensuring an easy win for the opposition. It is then claimed what a success this "democratic" youth revolution has been (and used as fodder to brainwash the youths in some other country).

Youths are easy targets here because they are hooked to the internet and are politically naive.

China was quite astute in this aspect to ensure that their internet didn't fall into the hands on western tech companies. They made sure that their own tech companies dominated in China, and were ruthless in not allowing western tech companies to compete successfully. This is why the west has found it so hard to foment any similar "online social media" revolutions there. And why the west were so obsessed about getting control over TikTok. (Note that this has nothing to do with "democracy" - it's a political necessity that if you want to be a sovereign country and do not want a foreign power to have influence in your country, it is essential to ensure that foreigners don't control your media or communication platform. This is why everyone's talking about "digital sovereignty" and banning teens from social media).

(Sadly, it isn't just the "west" - every country is now using the internet against nations they consider hostile, and doing some form of information warfare to influence foreign elections).

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main primary sources I'd say are: 1. "Occidentosis: A Plague from the West" by Jalal Al-e-Ahmad 2. "Red Shi'ism vs. Black Shi'ism" by Ali Shariati 3. "Martyrdom: Arise and Bear Witness" by Ali Shariati 4. "The Purification of the Soul" by Ahmed Fardid Most modern Iranian Shia philosophy is largely a synthesis of Heiddiger and Muhammad Iqbal ("Saare Jahan Se Aacha, Hindustan Humara"), as these Iranian philosophers…

Are these texts accessible to someone without a lot of context for Persian culture? (Are there specific translations you’d call out?) > Saare Jahan Se Aacha, Hindustan Humara Wait, is this Farsi? I think I can parse it with my rough knowledge of Hindi.

That is an Urdu poem and Urdu borrows from Hindi, Farsi, Arabic too. But I am confused too - Muhammad Iqbal ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Iqbal ) was an Iranian philosopher? Wasn't he a British Indian (in colonial India), who later became a Pakistani?

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#58
post #10
post #7

Good luck to them. None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well. 0/6

maybe the fact that Persians != Arabs will improve their odds. Recent uprisings had more luck (i.e. Bangladesh), even if it’s too early to fully assess their success

Bangladesh hasn't become a "democracy" in any manner. Remember that a whole host of leaders were arrested, and the most popular political party banned from participating in the recent elections! You can claim that if they were popular there wouldn't have been any "revolutions" when they were ruling. But note that this is a country that has struggled with violence throughout its history, has seen many military coups, and struggled to be a democracy. If they weren't popular, why were these so-called revolutionaries so hell-bent in not allowing them to participate in the "first free and fair" elections organised by them? You don't become a democracy by deliberately excluding a political party that was instrumental in the founding of Bangladesh, and is supported by half the country - that's how you weaken your country's unity and lay the grounds for a civil war.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Not sure what about any of that says Iranians are incapable of governing themselves as a democracy.

Iranians are protesting because their economy is collapsing from targeted attacks by the US/West. Foreign media records them and says they are trying to depose the theocracy, propaganda to justify a military incursion. Wild claims of civilians being killed by the regime, with zero evidence, manufactured from thin air. (WMD's in Iraq, White phosphorus in Syria) Average person now thinks it's their duty to to send Amer…

It seems pretty clear civilian protests have been killed by the regime, even by the regimes own admission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

There's a lot of uncertainty as to how many though.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I mean is two things are true at once: 1) Iran's government has not done a good job of running the country and is therefore genuinely unpopular among a significant percentage of the population. 2) Iran's current government has powerful enemies (US, UK and of course a country in the Middle East all really hate the Iranian regime) and those enemies are actively trying to destabilise it. So it's really hard from th…

> it's really hard from the perspective of being in a western country to work out how much of the protests are genuinely endogenous to Iran and how much is an intelligence operation, because it's clearly not 0% Intelligence assets are generally covert. It's incredibly difficult to engineer a protest–particularly in a repressive regime–out of nothing. Like half of the CIA's history in the Cold War was trying and faili…

Why are people even debating this ? Mossad themselves admitted to supporting protests on the ground. Pompeo even boasted about Mossad agents "walking beside" protesters - they were fully confident that they would successfully engineer regime change.

"Go out into the streets together. The time has come. We are with you. Not just from a distance or through words. We are also with you on the ground." -> Mossad.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/article-883524

https://english.aawsat.com/world/5224901-israel%E2%80%99s-mo...

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