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Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

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Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#31

Post by Herring »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28
clot27 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Democracy wont survive in iran until the govt want their oil to be depleted by western war hungry demons Yet somehow Brazil, Mexico, India and hosts of other non-European-origin-majority resource-rich democracies exist. That said, maybe the limiting factor on democracy is agency. If a culture blames outside forces for all of its woes, there is nothing it can–within that worldview–do to self improve. So it won't. If…

Yeah if anything the US is the real victim here, we constantly have to go cleaning up things over there at great expense.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#32

Post by clot27 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28
clot27 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Democracy wont survive in iran until the govt want their oil to be depleted by western war hungry demons Yet somehow Brazil, Mexico, India and hosts of other non-European-origin-majority resource-rich democracies exist. That said, maybe the limiting factor on democracy is agency. If a culture blames outside forces for all of its woes, there is nothing it can–within that worldview–do to self improve. So it won't. If…

[flagged]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#33

Post by JumpCrisscross »

clot27 wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracy wont survive in iran until the govt want their oil to be depleted by western war hungry demons Yet somehow Brazil, Mexico, India and hosts of other non-European-origin-majority resource-rich democracies exist. That said, maybe the limiting factor on democracy is agency. If a culture blames outside forces for all of its woes, there is nothing it can–within that worldview–do to self improve. So it won't. If…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#34

Post by JumpCrisscross »

regularization wrote: post #19
throwaway27448 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the economy is terrible and getting worse we could always stop punishing the people of Iran for their government...

Right, a clearer way of saying this, as you do, is the West imposed crippling sanctions just prior to all of this, as Trump sends aircraft carriers to the Gulf.

> a clearer way of saying this, as you do, is the West imposed crippling sanctions

The world doesn't revolve around the West. Nobody in America caused the IRGC to engineer a water crisis. Nobody asked for them to murder students in an internet-connected age, like the single thing you do not do if you want to calm things down.

Sanctions have made Iranians poorer. But so has their gerontocratic theocracy pursuing autarky and misguided nuclear ambitions at any cost. Khamenei can't hold open elections because he knows he'd lose.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#35

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mcny wrote: post #17

> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests. This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy". I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled wat…

> gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy"

Regime isn't the messaging target. Foreign actors are. And rightly or wrongly, desperate people will choose the icons they have, and the set to choose from is generally those that are helping and those the current regime despises. The first set is scarce. So we're left with the second.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#36

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ifwinterco wrote: post #30
mcny wrote: post #17

> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests. This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy". I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled wat…

Not puppets of the monarchy per se but at least some of them may be puppets of foreign actors who are backing the monarchy. Honestly very hard to say, I don’t know what to believe about the Iran situation. I think it’s pretty much impossible to get a good understanding of it from a western country

> Honestly very hard to say

It really isn't. Inflation at a fraction of Iran's prompts governments to change in any democracy.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#37

Post by [deleted] »

clot27 wrote: post #25
ukblewis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right and we could allow that government to continue to murder tens of thousands of it’s innocent civilians, build proxy armies that are larger than all the armies of Europe to kill all the Jews, to murder all of their minorities and anyone that remotely scares them while they build nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that they could use to murder Americans in the east coast, I mean they so scream “Death to Americ…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#38

Post by ifwinterco »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #36
ifwinterco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not puppets of the monarchy per se but at least some of them may be puppets of foreign actors who are backing the monarchy. Honestly very hard to say, I don’t know what to believe about the Iran situation. I think it’s pretty much impossible to get a good understanding of it from a western country

> Honestly very hard to say It really isn't. Inflation at a fraction of Iran's prompts governments to change in any democracy.

What I mean is two things are true at once:

1) Iran's government has not done a good job of running the country and is therefore genuinely unpopular among a significant percentage of the population.

2) Iran's current government has powerful enemies (US, UK and of course a country in the Middle East all really hate the Iranian regime) and those enemies are actively trying to destabilise it.

So it's really hard from the perspective of being in a western country to work out how much of the protests are genuinely endogenous to Iran and how much is an intelligence operation, because it's clearly not 0%

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#39

Post by spwa4 »

regularization wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

Iran had a parliament until they wanted Iran to control its own oil, whence the US and UK overthrew Mossadegh. They had ayatollah Borujerdi wreck the democracy. Also Kashani who helped oust Mossadegh, and then later supported Khomeini. The US recently worked to oust the secular leader of Syria to replace him with an ISIS leader. Actually al-Sharaa was on the US wanted terrorist list, only removed three months ago. Ma…

No Iran had a parliamant until it was overthrown in a socialist revolution. Then the ayatollahs started killing people, taking power. The KGB, of course, was also involved, on the side of the ayatollahs, like all socialists (the socialist international supported Khomeini personally). I kind of agree that the CIA is not always on the right side, but in Iran, is it so hard to say that at the very least the CIA was a lot better than the alternative?

Hell, the ayatollahs even gave communist housing a shot. They failed, just like they failed at everything, but they gave it a shot.

So you can ask the direct question: just like Venezuela was way better off with oil extraction before Chavez/Maduro ... and also in Iran you can easily say the situation was better before ... so is oil extraction and participating in the global economy not a lot better, at least for anyone actually living there?

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#40

Post by valianteffort »

blell wrote: post #16

This article glows.

The idea that Iranians are marching in the streets begging for a monarchy is so absurd only the dumbest will believe it.

And specifically they are "dying" to bring back the clown prince, son of a foreign puppet that was deposed by their parents/grandparents.

Afraid the zionist controlled media has already set the stage for an Iraq level invasion, using their propaganda machine, to install the guy they control.

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