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Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

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Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#21

Post by regularization »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
Herring wrote: post #7

Good luck to them. None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well. 0/6

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

Iran had a parliament until they wanted Iran to control its own oil, whence the US and UK overthrew Mossadegh. They had ayatollah Borujerdi wreck the democracy. Also Kashani who helped oust Mossadegh, and then later supported Khomeini.

The US recently worked to oust the secular leader of Syria to replace him with an ISIS leader. Actually al-Sharaa was on the US wanted terrorist list, only removed three months ago. Many such stories.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#22

Post by ukblewis »

mcny wrote: post #17

> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests. This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy". I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled wat…

[flagged]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#23

Post by ukblewis »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #12
nickff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The status quo in Iran isn’t going well either; the economy is terrible and getting worse, and the government is slaughtering its own citizens.

> the economy is terrible and getting worse we could always stop punishing the people of Iran for their government...

Right and we could allow that government to continue to murder tens of thousands of it’s innocent civilians, build proxy armies that are larger than all the armies of Europe to kill all the Jews, to murder all of their minorities and anyone that remotely scares them while they build nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that they could use to murder Americans in the east coast, I mean they so scream “Death to America!” at all of their pro Islamic regime rallies … Or was that not what you meant?

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#24

Post by clot27 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
Herring wrote: post #7

Good luck to them. None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well. 0/6

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

[flagged]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#25

Post by clot27 »

ukblewis wrote: post #23
throwaway27448 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the economy is terrible and getting worse we could always stop punishing the people of Iran for their government...

Right and we could allow that government to continue to murder tens of thousands of it’s innocent civilians, build proxy armies that are larger than all the armies of Europe to kill all the Jews, to murder all of their minorities and anyone that remotely scares them while they build nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles that they could use to murder Americans in the east coast, I mean they so scream “Death to Americ…

[flagged]

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#27

Post by thomassmith65 »

ukblewis wrote: post #22
mcny wrote: post #17

> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests. This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy". I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled wat…

[flagged]

The points are valid, but why the personal insults?

Re: the grandparent comment.

"Javid Shah" is one of the main chants of the recent protests. It's not particularly specific. Reza Pahlavi is the main figurehead of the opposition. He's a likely candidate to preside over a transitional government if this new revolution succeeds.

The regime's positioning is largely irrelevant now. The people are liable to adopt the opposite position simply because they see the regime as their enemy.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

clot27 wrote: post #24
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

[flagged]

> Democracy wont survive in iran until the govt want their oil to be depleted by western war hungry demons

Yet somehow Brazil, Mexico, India and hosts of other non-European-origin-majority resource-rich democracies exist.

That said, maybe the limiting factor on democracy is agency. If a culture blames outside forces for all of its woes, there is nothing it can–within that worldview–do to self improve. So it won't. If, on the other hand, it separates the factors it can control from those it can't (and nobody can control all of the factors, that's just reality), it has a hope.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#29

Post by JumpCrisscross »

regularization wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of the Arab Spring revolutions have gone well None of the Arab-Spring populations had democratic rule since, arguably, Carthage. Iran is different [1]. More importantly, Iran was recently a secular society. It has memory of education and freedom. Many Arab countries have been fundamentalist for their entire modern eras. (To be clear, every first democracy arose from the ashes of a string of fallen autocrats. I…

Iran had a parliament until they wanted Iran to control its own oil, whence the US and UK overthrew Mossadegh. They had ayatollah Borujerdi wreck the democracy. Also Kashani who helped oust Mossadegh, and then later supported Khomeini. The US recently worked to oust the secular leader of Syria to replace him with an ISIS leader. Actually al-Sharaa was on the US wanted terrorist list, only removed three months ago. Ma…

Sure. Not sure what about any of that says Iranians are incapable of governing themselves as a democracy.

Re: Iranian Students Protest as Anger Grows

#30

Post by ifwinterco »

mcny wrote: post #17

> At Amirkabir University of Technology in Tehran, students dressed in black shouted “Long Live the Shah,” a reference to Reza Pahlavi, the exiled son of Iran’s last monarch, who has emerged as a leader of the recent protests. This is unfortunate and gives the regime a chance to say "see, these people are puppets of the monarchy". I feel like the people who want a monarchy installed are trying to fish in troubled wat…

Not puppets of the monarchy per se but at least some of them may be puppets of foreign actors who are backing the monarchy.

Honestly very hard to say, I don’t know what to believe about the Iran situation. I think it’s pretty much impossible to get a good understanding of it from a western country

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