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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

bbc.com

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#411

Post by _hf1g »

fortzi wrote: post #225
basisword wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> pro-Hamas activist You've let your true colors show through... People were angry at the world allowing a genocide to occur and at their own countries actively supporting that genocide. It was also a genocide going on for several years allowing momentum to build and anger to grow. The most recent Iranian uprising lasted a few weeks. I would be more upset that Trump told the poor Iranians to protest and that he woul…

Can you clarify what you mean by Genocide? It seems like this definition has become very fluid

[dead]

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#412

Post by don_esteban »

hunterpayne wrote: post #363
don_esteban wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empathy means understanding that nationalism is a powerful force and even people who are against their government would support their government against external aggressor. Empathy means that you understand that what YOU consider terrorism might mean 'supporting self-determination of oppressed and occupied people' by somebody else. Is it so difficult to understand that ordinary Iranians do not see their government as…

> "almost all people I knew being (low-level, passive) anti-communists" Nice pet elephant

Please explain, not everybody is native English speaker.

Have you lived in communistic (or otherwise authoritarian) country?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#413

Post by dang »

Rover222 wrote: post #379
basisword wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in Gaza.

[flagged]

You've been breaking the site guidelines quite a lot in this thread by posting flamebait and crossing into personal attack. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Note this one, among others: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#414

Post by c22 »

martin-t wrote: post #350
froggy wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If we lived in a world where dictators and their flying monkeys get regularly shot or droned to death, we wouldn't have dictators” While I agree with the sentiment, the groups who support dictators (oligarchs, religious extremists) would decide to also use violence. So both dictators and the leaders on the side of the people would be murdered and society would be destabilized.

That's why anonymity is important. We need reliable anonymous communication as yet another source of friction (drink!) which the state needs to overcome to subjugate the people. And that's why so many states, even western democracies, are trying to oppose it now using children or terrorists as an excuse. The authoritarians and wannabe-dictators (most of whom will never achieve their goal or even publicly state it) ar…

Using violence against someone is the ultimate authoritarian act, so for one side this is business as usual while for the other this is the epitome of hypocrisy.

Your mention of anonymity reminds me of assasination politics [0], which is an idea I found enticing in the past. However I've since come to the opinion that such a system is neither optimal nor necessary, though I believe a similar outcome may be inevitable as we continue along the arc of the democratization of power through technical proliferation.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bell

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#415

Post by padjo »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #398
padjo wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah great so when the ceasefire came into effect then people stopped being killed? Like would happen in a war, right?

Both can be true in war: (1) war (2) ceasefire that doesn’t hold For example, there was a ceasefire between Thailand and Cambodia, and then it was violated.

Comparing this to Thailand/Cambodia is absurd.

Anyway there's no point arguing with people like you. The evidence is clear. The political rhetoric from Israel is clear. People who actually study genocide are very clear. Israel will "cleanse" Gaza of the "animals" and the West bank and idiots in America will lap up the propaganda and argue about whether its actually a genocide or not.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#416

Post by reliabilityguy »

cardanome wrote: post #407
reliabilityguy wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fatah decided to betray its own people. In the West Bank it is helping Israel to oppress their own people and actively fights against Palestinian resistance. https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/10/23/palestine-authorities-cr... Does Israel also force Hamas and PA to violently suppress dissent too?

The Palestinian Authority is Fatah and yes they are forced by Israel to suppress dissent. As for Hamas > Human Rights Watch met with the Palestinian Authority Intelligence Services in Ramallah, but was unable to accept an offer from Hamas authorities to meet in Gaza because Israel refused to grant permits for senior Human Rights Watch officials to enter the Gaza Strip for this purpose. Israeli authorities also reject…

> The Palestinian Authority is Fatah and yes they are forced by Israel to suppress dissent.

So, they still choose to do it, right?

> As for Hamas

How Israelis refusal to admit these officials to meet Hamas’s leadership makes the crimes committed by Hamas not true?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#417

Post by remarkEon »

dataflow wrote: post #342
remarkEon wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reasons are a little more complex. The geography and history dimensions are plainly and obviously different, but criticizing Iran is wrapped up in layers of criticism of political Islam, which is harder to do for the people who tend to prioritize the plight of Palestinians. The Islamic Republic of Iran is the logical end state of the governing ideology of Hamas, and it's probably just easier to ignore the…

> it's probably just easier to ignore the inconsistencies here For people who actually actively think of both, that may be the case? But "ignoring" presumes the comparison feeling potentially valid to them in the first place. It's not ignorance or even an inconsistency if the comparison would feel so apples-to-oranges that it doesn't even occur to them. Maybe my view is distorted here, so here's a question to check t…

I think they’re overwhelmingly white, conservative, American, and usually are religious. We may be indirectly saying the same thing. The Palestinian cause is wrapped up in a number of other issues where the demographic overlap is not likely to include the same people I observe being upset about the lack of coverage of this protest movement in Iran. I don’t have a good explanation for that phenomenon, other than the perception that Persians are not members of a group-type that would otherwise elicit sympathy on the dimensions of identity, ethnicity, and so on.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#418

Post by reliabilityguy »

tehjoker wrote: post #405
reliabilityguy wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> independent nation that is not our enemy. That is why when they chant "Death to America" they mean that they love us?

They hate the government that is trying to destroy their entire society. Stop attacking a country half-way around the world, they will stop even thinking about us.

> They hate the government that is trying to destroy their entire society.

Given Irans track record wrt women rights, and inability of Iranians to accept violence toward their women, IR doesn’t need the US or anyone else to destroy their society.

> Stop attacking a country half-way around the world, they will stop even thinking about us.

Why would they? IR is ruled by radical Muslims who believe in spreading the rule of Islamic Revolution. Why should we not believe them?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#419

Post by Rover222 »

dang wrote: post #413
Rover222 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You've been breaking the site guidelines quite a lot in this thread by posting flamebait and crossing into personal attack. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this one, among others: " Comments should get more though…

"useful idiot" is not meant as a personal insult. It's a common idiom
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