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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

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141–150 of 503 posts

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#141

“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast…

> As support for state repression of the movement declines (because repression is not stopping the disruption) and the movement itself proves impossible to extinguish (because repression is recruiting for it), the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands.

Public support for the Iranian state has been around zero among the population for years now, the problem is that the Iranian government has probably 2-3 million of armed governmental agents (from police over regular military to IRGC/Basij) [1] and is just about as willing to compromise as the CCP was and is ever since Tiananmen.

In fact, I would say what we've seen from Iran the last weeks (credible sources say around 35k deaths) is even more deaths than in the 1989 China protests which had a death toll of (worst case estimated) 10k.

Against that level of fanatical, money- and religion-driven bloodlust, there is no chance of successful protests, not without serious external aid shifting the power balance. And in the case of Iran, that is the US and Israel wiping the mullahs out of this world, or causing them enough trouble so that the leadership accepts an offer to escape to Moscow alive.

Let me be clear: I despise both Trump and Netanyahu. But this is, IMHO, the one and only chance these two men have to assist a just and rightful cause for once.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46884956

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#142
post #60

[flagged]

We (the US) just bombed Iran last summer. We are moving the largest buildup in decades of armament and materiel to Iran's doorstep RIGHT NOW, and it seems extremely likely we are about to bomb them again. What exactly do you want to happen here? In your view, am I taking the side of the Ayatollahs because bombing isn't enough and we should be nuking Tehran instead? It's telling that perceived tacit support of an Iran…

It's possible, of course, to oppose the Ayatollah as a dictatorial regime and oppose excessive American intervention.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#143

[flagged]

99% of the moderation at HN is just the accumulated actions of your fellow readers who upvote, downvote, flag and vouch for stories and comments. If you don't like their choices or their politics, maybe try Bluesky?

>> 99% of the moderation at HN is just the accumulated actions of your fellow readers who upvote

This is false, and even the moderators admit it

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46396613

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pound for pound, Hacker News has the best bad takes anywhere. This is an absolutely terrible take, but at least it's very interesting.

I'd recommend Slashdot...

The difference is there's a chance that they're trolling on slashdot. HN are genuine bad takes by intelligent people, I believe.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#145
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there are no circumstances where armed rebellion is justifiable and the only legitimate type of resistance to state violence is literally trying to drown the state forces in bodies of non-violent protestors? At a certain point there ceases to be a middle path between violent resistance and complete surrender. > Protesters which foreign states (China or Russia) This type of relativism is dishonest. Of course US is…

Uh, sorry, no. At the moment you start arguing by 'The Iranian regime is objectively evil, period', you have totally lost the plot. The statement 'The USA regime is objectively evil, period' is much more justifiable. Measured, e.g. by the number of people it has killed (both directly, and indirectly by sanctions and support for brutal dictators - e.g. Pinochet, but also Saddam while he was waging war with Iran). Medd…

[deleted]

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#146
I applaud their bravery in remaining non violent, but I'm not sure that is the best strategy as the state showed their willingness to just kill everyone.

Would organising an armed resistance be more effective? The state dissappears people. Have them organise and dissappear the leaders of the revolutionary guard or at the very least help another state (like Israel) to target them.

Non violence works only in democracies and other systems where the rulers care about what people think.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#147
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>That crowd only seems to care if they can actively oppose Israel or the current administration Can you think of any motivating reasons for the crowd to focus on Israel specifically? Last I checked, the American government isn't sending billions of dollars of weaponry and political cover to the Iranian government, so that is one massive reason why protesting Israel makes more sense. >have not made a peep about the th…

> ...disturbed that all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine...

> I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas...

See how quickly things have turned from the first post manufactured to seem reasonable? No more "Curious" and "just asking questions".

How many pro-Hamas friends can a person have?! I don't know a single pro-Hamas person myself.

I believe you are being taken for a ride friend.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#148
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? It's well past the stage where non violent protest or resistance stopped being a viable option..

Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.

How many of those African regimes sponsor terrorism and piracy against Americans, or adopt “death to America” as a motto?

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the civil rights leaders themselves were mostly genuine. I think they were used as useful idiots on a couple instances to support the two most destructive policies of the US. (1) Secession. This was used for evil in the form of slavery. But it is the most powerful check of federal power by the states we had. The fact it could be used for evil did not mean it is better to get rid of it. (2) Expansion of the…

(2) is not a problem if you enact equivalent civil rights acts in every state. There would be plenty of political support for doing this today, including in the Sunbelt - which there wasn't in the 1950s.

I think “equivalent” would be the challenge here. When people need to know at all the nuances of what bathroom and restaurants they’re allowed to use, and what train cars when business or pleasure takes them across state lines it becomes a pretty large tax both for the individual and for interstate commerce at large

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the civil rights leaders themselves were mostly genuine. I think they were used as useful idiots on a couple instances to support the two most destructive policies of the US. (1) Secession. This was used for evil in the form of slavery. But it is the most powerful check of federal power by the states we had. The fact it could be used for evil did not mean it is better to get rid of it. (2) Expansion of the…

Im certainly sympathetic to #2 being one of the greatest unconstitutional practices of the modern US government, but is its genesis really the civil rights movement? There were many settled cases about interstate commerce before the Civil rights act, like Gibbons v. Ogden. https://www.britannica.com/money/commerce-clause/Interpretat...

You're absolutely right -- it's not really the genesis per se on #2, just one of the modern weapons used. Civil rights act is one of the main weapons used today to explain why we can't wind back interstate commerce clause, creating a sort of legal suicide pact where the interstate commerce clause interpretation is held hostage if you want to keep your civil rights. That is, the CRA was arguably one of the most important things for double sealing the deal on progressive era expansion of the ICC.

Many times here on HN I have debated people who were well versed on constitutional law, and when I mention rolling back the interstate commerce clause one of their main go to is that they're afraid I will destroyed the CRA and that's why they can't do it. And they're right -- a nearly identical on many points CRA happened in 1875 as the one passed in 1964. The 14th and 15th amendment existed at both times, and the relevant points of the constitution stayed the same. Yet the latter was found constitution and the former was not, in large part due to the change in the meaning of the interstate commerce clause.

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