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The driverless road ahead

economist.com

61–70 of 82 posts

Re: The driverless road ahead

#62

I think that once driverless cars are mainstream, which I have no doubt will eventually happen, it can usher in the age of the (driverless) flying car... finally! There seems like quite a bit of technological overlap, and from a safety standpoint I would much rather have people flying around in automated vehicles than human controlled. If this came to be, coupled with high speed wireless, I would go so far as predict…

Flying cars are uncommon not because they are dangerous, but because it requires a huge amount of energy to defeat gravity in addition to propelling the vehicle forward.

Cities are more populous and wealthy than ever before because there is no substitute for human proximity in a service economy, and more humans in close proximity makes for more productive services.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Can you imagine Top Gear proclaiming driverless cars as the way to get status? No. They'll be ridiculed by anyone who knows anything about cars (Same way people who drive an automatic are ridiculed). Imagine "Drag and drop programming is the future of software development!!!" 2. Not convinced anyone really gets stressed driving, and not convinced that "not being in control of the car" would make anyone less stress…

1. Agreed that its hard to imagine Top Gear writing that way. For example, for Mercedes they write: "Packed with every conceivable gadget, the S-class is traditionally a place where new technology is debuted – and because this is Merc’s flagship it usually works faultlessly." Car and Driver writes: "Mercedes also claims its new sedan is its safest yet. S-classes equipped with optional Distronic Plus cruise control go…

3. Why does everyone sigh when they find a "software" on off switch compared to a hardware one? Because the software one invariably doesn't work, or doesn't work immediately.

4. I'm sure it's possible to make an automatic transmission better for fuel consumption, that's an easy problem. But make an automatic transmission that knows what you as a driver want (I'm betting that's rarely "fuel efficiency") - that's the holy grail, which certainly hasn't been achieved yet.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your argument that flying cars would beat out road cars? Flying requires way more energy and energy has always been scarce up till now.

It's not as simple as that. People fly now as well. If everything's about energy efficiency, people wouldn't leave their house. If by flying you can commute from a much cheaper place than it's worth it. Also, you have to factor in the road construction/maintenance costs which flying doesn't have. Especially in the third world where roads aren't built yet. Also, the flying can be in the form of airships which are ener…

The most dramatic counterargument is with distribution of goods, which mostly occurs with cargo ships, trucks, and trains--simply because those are way cheaper & more efficient than flying. The simple physics argument is that it requires extra work to keep something flying, which is better avoided. So roads and rails will need to be kept anyway, and it's highly unlikely that people wouldn't use them.

On the other hand, I do have to say I'm a big fan of airships, but I'm not holding my breath for their return. I even doubt people would accept that travelling has to be so much slower in an airship, now that he jet age has arrived.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#65
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will in countries that aren't completely bone-headed about it. I guess a good measure of how corrupt a particular political environment is will be how long it takes to give in to the overwhelming reasons (ecological, economical and social) to allow the true, very low cost of self-driving cars to have its impact on the taxi industry.

I would be curious which countries those are? Is their a 1st world country that doesn't license their cabs to provide an artificial scarcity? Heck, some cities actually mandate the brand of car that can be used for a cab.

As far as I can tell, my home town of Edinburgh only has license fees that have to be paid by black cab and private hire companies - about £2000 or so (additional fees to license drivers as well). I can't see any mention of any artificial restrictions on the number of taxis operating.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#66
Other comments have criticized this article as too utopian, but I like the submitted article a lot, as a summary of several effects of the development of driverless car technology. Technology projections are often too ambitious in the near term, but underambitious in the long term. I think the submitted article here, which discusses trends we can reasonably expect without being really specific about dates, gets the general picture about right. There will be surprises from the introduction of driverless cars that perhaps this article has not anticipated.

I think the article "Why Driverless Cars Are Inevitable--and a Good Thing"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044352490457765...

by Dan Neil of the Wall Street Journal, published last month, is a good commentary on why ordinary people will mostly be glad to use driverless cars, and regulators and insurers will be glad to nudge drivers to use them.

"As a mature, postindustrial society, the U.S. has in many ways topped out economically (population growth, consumption) compared with younger competitors on the world stage. Americans are learning hard lessons about the value of their work in a race-to-the-bottom global economy.

"The one brilliant part of the U.S. economic profile is productivity. It turns out, Americans are a little nutty when it comes to work.

"If autonomy were fully implemented today, there would be roughly 100 million Americans sitting in their cars and trucks tomorrow, by themselves, with time on their hands. It would be, from an economist's point of view, the Pennsylvania oil fields of man-hours, a beautiful gusher, a bonanza of reverie washing upon our shores."

Driving here in Minnesota, I can't wait until the typical Minnesota driver's low-grade performance is replaced by the performance of road-certified driverless car systems. And I most definitely look forward to having much more time to think and to enjoy undistracted conversation in a driverless car than I can now safely achieve while driving. That indeed will be a boost to my productivity and to the quality of my family life.

Another subthread here talks about the trade-offs between owning a personal driverless car versus taking rides from a driverless taxi service. My family, like many families in the United States, considers the issues of the one-car-per-adult lifestyle versus the one-car-per-household lifestyle. Most United States families with children would probably make their choices about car ownership with that being the key decision point. I can see a lot of United States families deciding to have one owned family car that is filled with all of their favorite things to have along during road trips (so that the car is one more personal storage unit, in part) that would accumulate a lot of pleasant memories of family outings and so forth. But the family's second car (in some families, the third car) would be replaced with a subscription to a driverless car service, which would reliably pick up family members on a moment's notice for trips to the grocery store, the soccer game, a music lesson, a party while the other parent is still at work, or whatever. If the driverless car services become reliable enough to whisk a child (with or without parent) over to an urgent care center for sudden injuries and illnesses, one major reason parents keep a second "transportation car" besides the main commuting and traveling car would vanish. I fully expect individual rates of car ownership per household to drop when driverless cars become reliable.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#67
post #46

Unsurprisingly, site full of left coast people think driverless cars will be a revolution. Guy sitting in Manhattan doesn't get what all the fuss is about.

If you're under 34 years of age, a motor vehicle is the thing most likely to kill you. Pedestrians are close to 50% of the motor vehicle deaths in NYC. All too many collisions are caused by dangerous driving such as speeding or violation of pedestrian right-of-way in a crosswalk.

Many measures that would increase pedestrian and cyclist safety are blocked by members of the entitled minority motorist class: speed cameras because many motorists believe themselves unable to drive at a speed safe for other road users, and bike lanes and wider sidewalks because drivers feel the region of the public roadway they have colonized for the storage of private property is a permanent entitlement. Automated vehicles would better obey speed laws and make nearby street parking less necessary.

Re: The driverless road ahead

#68
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tesla will solve this problem for just about anyone within 10 years. They already did with the Tesla Supercharger network (free charging), but the pricing of the cars is not accessible for everyone right now. In 10 years it will be. Pretty sure there will be an under $20,000 model within 10 years. From what I've noticed Tesla looks to cut the price in half every 3 years for their new models.

Even under $20k isn't low enough for many people. If you live in a city and are happy with your public transit options, then it's only around $100 a month. Which is way way less than car payment + insurance + maintenance. Even without paying for fuel.

If the cars cost $20k and drive themselves, droves of those people will be able to access them for some of their transit needs (because they will be available, cheap!, on a per mile basis).

Re: The driverless road ahead

#70
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will in countries that aren't completely bone-headed about it. I guess a good measure of how corrupt a particular political environment is will be how long it takes to give in to the overwhelming reasons (ecological, economical and social) to allow the true, very low cost of self-driving cars to have its impact on the taxi industry.

I would be curious which countries those are? Is their a 1st world country that doesn't license their cabs to provide an artificial scarcity? Heck, some cities actually mandate the brand of car that can be used for a cab.

Clearly there are existing regulations that would have to be reformed - criminal record checks for self-driving cabs wouldn't make any sense, for example! What I think (and what I assume swombat means) is that these reforms will be made when self-driving cabs come on the market.

After all, why wouldn't they?

London is one place that doesn't have any limit or medallion system regulating the number of cab drivers - although they do have regulations regarding eyesight, criminal record and route-finding ability.

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