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Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

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Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#81

Post by weatherlite »

joe_mamba wrote: post #74
weatherlite wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you up to a point. If you have time watch Dr Liberman's video about why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vzS7-MtObo& There's nothing new here, we all know this, but he brings the point home very well. I think brisk walking is within the realm of possibilites for most people. Running and lifting - idk. I personally love it but so many people I know have…

>why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise. In fact, most people will watch the self help videos and learn the exact same things they already knew, if only they'd be honest with themselves about their issue and not try to avoid accountability. But it's easier to accept things when a professional specialist te…

> I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise

Well just if anyone reads this , Liberman's point is that we are biologically programmed to NOT want to exercise unless there's a clear biological incentive - like getting food, or a social incentive - like a tribe participating in a dance or children playing. Since for millions of years we couldn't tell when the next calory of food would come - exercising for the heck of it was insanity and you wouldn't survive. You expended so many calories just gathering and hunting you mostly rested when you could. So basically our biology does not fit into the world of calory abundance we live in.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#82

Post by staticassertion »

weatherlite wrote: post #46
staticassertion wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is true, but oof that's a heavy list. For one thing, food, alcohol, drugs, and stimulants, all have addictive properties that are almost certainly comorbid with depression. Dropping those is rough. Exercise is perhaps one of the easier ones but, personally, I've found it incredible to reflect on how absolutely bad my childhood "gym" classes were. At no point did we actually... go to a gym. That was never…

> At no point did we actually... go to a gym You really don't have to go to a gym if you don't like it , or do something "hard" that many people dislike like running. You can simply walk briskly for 150 minutes a week (which is the recommended dose, and which 80% of Americans and other Westerners don't meet). That is time outside (vitamin D) + moving your entire body - less chronic pain, better joints, better bones e…

I actually do exercise. What I'm suggesting here is that there was never anyone helping me to build that habit forming, it has been entirely "self serve".

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#83

Post by weatherlite »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #80
weatherlite wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks this is new to me (I'm mostly a cardio guy), didnt' know there was any difference in sleep quality/duration between cardio and lifting. They both help sleep btw it just turns out according to recent research resistance training helps more. Both are need though for a healthy lifestyle and I think cardio is actually more accessible for most people; I'm gonna count brisk walking as cardio for most people and that…

I don’t like anecdotal evidence, but for myself I was running regularly but still experiencing suboptimal sleep. I started resistance training again and my sleep immediately got better.

I'm down with that , resistance training is clearly good. Cardio is also clearly good (both groups had better sleep than the group that didn't do any cardio). People should just do something, even walking birskly. We should all simply try to move and/or lift things.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#84

Post by GeoAtreides »

nasir wrote: post #47
resoluteteeth wrote: post #31

Exercise, therapy, and antidepressants have all been shown to have similar effect sizes for depression. It seems like some people take that to mean that therapy and antidepressants are pointless but unless there's some reason to think that the effects are mutually exclusive, a more reasonable interpretation is probably that it's good to try to do all of these things if possible if you are depressed.

Mens sana in corpore sano Taking the antidepressant has become the dominant go to approach as it is more commercially profitable for the seller and easier to commit to for the taker.

i fully agree, but here's an advice for next time: HN (specifically americans, anglos too but not as much) is VERY pro medication. any suggestion they're taking too much pills will be downvoted

it's easier to just let them have their soma and say nothing

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#86

Post by butlike »

joe_mamba wrote: post #3

How to solve most cases of depression, make sure to get all these (if you can): - good diet with no junk food, alcohol, drugs and stimulants - regular exercise and outdoor time - good sleep hygiene - regular healthy social interactions - eliminate environmental stressors (job/financial stress, relationship stress, noise pollution, etc) Of course, not everyone can have everything and some of those aren't 100% under yo…

I don't agree with the elimination of things. Removing things can be its own source of tribulation. I agree on all other parts, though

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#87

Post by dyauspitr »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #38
iammjm wrote: post #26

lets get concrete with "Exercise": what is one unit of exercise? like exactly what type of movement, at what intensity and duration should be performed how frequently to be as effective as therapy? like should i run every day at 160bmp for 20 minutes? whats the minimum effective dose?

If you take a "brisk" 20 minute walk every day, you'll meet the recommended weekly amount of aerobic exercise for Americans. (I think people should do more.) The actual amount you need to exercise, or the intensity, is not very big. The good thing with exercise is also that once you make it a habit to walk, say, 20 minutes a day, then walking 25 minutes a day becomes pretty trivial, and so on.

Anecdotally, when I’m depressed, a brisk walk does very little. I need to run to the point where I get the endorphins flowing and there is pain from the lactic acid buildup.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#88

Post by giglamesh »

graemep wrote: post #68
nasir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mens sana in corpore sano Taking the antidepressant has become the dominant go to approach as it is more commercially profitable for the seller and easier to commit to for the taker.

Its also cheaper. A lot cheaper. In the UK a GP can just lot prescribe an anti-depressant. There are waiting lists for NHS therapy and paying privately is expensive.

What does "lot prescribe" mean?

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#89

Post by joe_mamba »

weatherlite wrote: post #81
joe_mamba wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why people resist exercise so much despite wanting to do it: I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise. In fact, most people will watch the self help videos and learn the exact same things they already knew, if only they'd be honest with themselves about their issue and not try to avoid accountability. But it's easier to accept things when a professional specialist te…

> I don't need to watch a video, I can just do introspection and I know why I resit exercise Well just if anyone reads this , Liberman's point is that we are biologically programmed to NOT want to exercise unless there's a clear biological incentive - like getting food, or a social incentive - like a tribe participating in a dance or children playing. Since for millions of years we couldn't tell when the next calory…

Because the concept of exercise is a very modern and unnatural thing for humans. We've been moving all day to make a living for most of our history, only when we switched to sedentary desk jobs did we discover the need to do exercise to maintain our health, but that's like the past 50+ years compared to 50K year history of being hunter gatherers. It doesn't take a prestigious scientist to connect these dots.

Re: Exercise has 'similar effect' to therapy, study on depression shows

#90

Post by alphawhisky »

joe_mamba wrote: post #22
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember where I read it, but it always stuck with me: most cases of depression can be solved with a one-time deposit of $20 million in the patient's bank account. A lot of the time, what is diagnosed as depression is actually a very valid reaction to being in a shitty situation. I myself ended up at a psychiatrist due to being stuck in a shitty job with me being too exhausted and anxious to do anything about…

>most cases of depression can be solved with a one-time deposit of $20 million in the patient's bank account. Yes, but actually not always. If you have someone overweight because they're only eating pizza, cheetos and cola everyday and you use a magic wand to give them Thor's physique, how long will their new physique last with their diet until they devolve back into a slug monster? Money tends to run out, very quick…

This is a pretty poor take. Everyone knows that it's easier to maintain fitness/muscle than build it. The same is true with money, it's much easier to coast or make moves financially when you have headroom. There's a type of financial self-sabotage people often commit when they're in an "unwinnable" situation called Doom Spending. I feel like the same psychological principles that convince a person in debt to finance their groceries also makes them lean into eating when overweight, lean into laziness when unemployed, etc. They always say that the hardest part is starting, but when it comes to money, fitness, employment, not everyone starts from the same place, and without being/having been at rock bottom you can't speak to the perspective of getting out of it. Agreed that a holistic approach is the only proper way though.
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