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Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

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Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#81

Post by mghackerlady »

ericmay wrote: post #66
thewebguyd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not implemented like that because the true goal of these laws has nothing to do with protecting children or age verification, and instead have everything to do with completely eliminating anonymity/pseudo-anonymity online. They want to ID everyone, and have all user generated content attributed to a known, identified individual.

I think it's mostly easy to identify anyone if you actually want to - if you buy anything online you are 100% identifiable for example. Given the pros/cons in context, I think I'm in favor of it for social media, at least. I'd actually argue you would want to go further and you should have your full address, employer, and more available online. LinkedIn is a cesspool of awful salespeople, but you know what it's not?…

I do agree that most people are able to be easily identified, and that anonymity has created problems, but people should be able to both use the internet and remain anonymous as without the anonymous or pseudonymous transmission of information a democracy can't function and makes it trivally easy for the state to further limit the rights of an individual

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#82

Post by ericmay »

trhway wrote: post #79
ericmay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly easy to identify anyone if you actually want to - if you buy anything online you are 100% identifiable for example. Given the pros/cons in context, I think I'm in favor of it for social media, at least. I'd actually argue you would want to go further and you should have your full address, employer, and more available online. LinkedIn is a cesspool of awful salespeople, but you know what it's not?…

> Maybe you should think twice before saying something online you wouldn't say while standing in front of your house or at work. then I'd never say the things i'm saying about Russia/Putin as i still have a family there or in case US kicks me out back there.

Right, there are trade-offs.

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#83

Post by deltoidmaximus »

dietr1ch wrote: post #46
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ad industry underwrites the consumer tech market. That's why you can buy a SmartTV for like 100 bucks (or whatever, I haven't bought a tv in like 10 years knock-on-wood ).

My plan to buy a TV is to get one that can be kept offline, or one that can be made able to stay offline through flashing or dismantling into its very core elements. Dismantling it would probably ensure it's ugly af, but maybe if you try to go for one of those TV-in-a-frame things it might not look hideous.

Not sure how common it is now, but based on repair manuals my TV's wifi is provided by a standard m.2 wifi module and can be trivially removed. That wouldn't stop them from changing the TV's OS to nag or otherwise disable itself afterwards but the hardware change is about as trivial as it could be.

Now why the disable wifi option isn't available on the TV when it appears in the user manual is another matter...

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#84

Post by zamadatix »

t1234s wrote: post #17

This is a bait-and-switch that will be used to roll in an internet ID for all people. I believe this is why M$ is trying to force people to log in to their local machines with a microsoft account.

I'm much more convinced Microsoft wants to do stuff like sell cloud subscriptions at the click of a button in the desktop than Microsoft gives a crap about those subscriptions being tied to a consistent account ID. The latter certainly sounds evil, but not in a way that particularly helps Microsoft over their competitors.

Uncle Bob probably would probably need to do a decent amount of work to figure out how to purchase a OneDrive subscription from having no account, particularly if they think "I've already got an account - that's how I log in!". If the PC forces Bob to walk through creating a cloud Microsoft account before he even sees the desktop then the only step remaining is to click to OneDrive (or whatever) sales notification and enter a credit card so his "important personal files stay backed up" (or however they pitch the service in the notifications).

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#85

Post by ericmay »

cosiiine wrote: post #80
ericmay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly easy to identify anyone if you actually want to - if you buy anything online you are 100% identifiable for example. Given the pros/cons in context, I think I'm in favor of it for social media, at least. I'd actually argue you would want to go further and you should have your full address, employer, and more available online. LinkedIn is a cesspool of awful salespeople, but you know what it's not?…

"Anonymity on social media has brought a lot of problems and I'm not sure what the benefits are" Anonymity is a shield against public lynching for communities that are targeted by hate groups such as LGBTQ+ (one example, there are plenty).

But that is happening today with anonymity, but then we have all the negative stuff too.

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#86

Post by mghackerlady »

dietr1ch wrote: post #46
b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ad industry underwrites the consumer tech market. That's why you can buy a SmartTV for like 100 bucks (or whatever, I haven't bought a tv in like 10 years knock-on-wood ).

My plan to buy a TV is to get one that can be kept offline, or one that can be made able to stay offline through flashing or dismantling into its very core elements. Dismantling it would probably ensure it's ugly af, but maybe if you try to go for one of those TV-in-a-frame things it might not look hideous.

Or you can either do what I do and buy an old TV. I have a nearly 20 year old plasma that looks great and isn't gonna listen in on me. If you absolutely need a higher resolution than 1080p or need an OLED display, you can buy them as "digital signage" (though, usually with a pretty high markup)

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#87

Post by a2128 »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #71

Serious question: why can't Meta, Google, and friends just decide not to serve Arizona? I get logistically it would be tough, but if they built that capability, they would have a very robust lever to pull anytime a government pulls this schtick. I would imagine the backlash from the people would fix this pretty quickly. This seems like one of those "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situations. I'd fully support bi…

I don't think Google considers such legislation to be their enemy. It would effectively kill F-Droid and other third-party app distribution methods, and would fully lock them in a place of high power over their platforms and pull the ladder up beneath them, and nobody would be able to blame Google for it. I mean, why would anybody submit their ID to a brand new unproven app store? Seems quite risky, better to just use Google Play

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#88

Post by 1209178 »

ericmay wrote: post #85
cosiiine wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anonymity on social media has brought a lot of problems and I'm not sure what the benefits are" Anonymity is a shield against public lynching for communities that are targeted by hate groups such as LGBTQ+ (one example, there are plenty).

But that is happening today with anonymity, but then we have all the negative stuff too.

> But that is happening today with anonymity

It would happen a lot more often without anonymity.

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#89

Post by trhway »

ericmay wrote: post #82
trhway wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you should think twice before saying something online you wouldn't say while standing in front of your house or at work. then I'd never say the things i'm saying about Russia/Putin as i still have a family there or in case US kicks me out back there.

Right, there are trade-offs.

it isn't trade-off. You're supporting a systematic chilling effect on legal free speech.

Re: Arizona Bill Requires Age Verification for All Apps

#90

Post by deltoidmaximus »

devsda wrote: post #76
adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #71

Serious question: why can't Meta, Google, and friends just decide not to serve Arizona? I get logistically it would be tough, but if they built that capability, they would have a very robust lever to pull anytime a government pulls this schtick. I would imagine the backlash from the people would fix this pretty quickly. This seems like one of those "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situations. I'd fully support bi…

Not a good idea to enourage that sort of behavior though, because the same tools can embolden them and can be used to pull out of say California if it pushes for a strong pro consumer legislations. Corporations don’t act on the moral principles regardless of what their PR/marketing department says. It is ultimately decided on how laws affect their bottomline.

They wouldn't pull out of California. It's 1/5 of the US economy and would leave a gaping opening for a competitor to gain a stronger foothold there. You're right it's about money not principles but that's exactly why the threat would be empty. They'd probably lobby congress to try and make it illegal for the states to enact the protection and do some performative annoyances instead.

They might try to make an example out of a smaller state, but since they aren't selling food or fuel or heart pills it isn't like the state is going to collapse without access to Meta properties.

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