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Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

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Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#351

Post by coldtea »

loeber wrote: post #160
anschwa wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On macOS, you can enable window dragging by holding down the Control+Command keys with this command: defaults write -g NSWindowShouldDragOnGesture -bool true I use this with "three finger drag", and resizing at the window border hasn't been much of an issue for me.

MacOS is the "it just works" operating system. As such, I think the moment that you need to declare custom workarounds like this, it kind of loses its legitimacy, and you should already be in Linux land.

Even if this was a "custom workaround" this argument would be extreme "all or nothing" binary thinking.

An OS can "just work" for of the stuff a user does, and just need some tweaking here or there. Doesn't mean if the "just works" stuff is not 100% you're just as good going to Linux.

Anyway, this is not some "custom workaround", it's a regular Apple-provided macOS toggle. It's just not exposed in the UI, because for most users, the regular way "just works". I know all kinds of "defaults" toggles, and barely use 1/100 of them, because the actual defaults are fine.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#352

Post by jraph »

Rygian wrote: post #264
Nition wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Linux if you learn shortcuts for close/minimise/maximise as well, you can even remove window borders and title bars entirely. It's free screen real estate.

The AltDrag tool on Windows includes Super+double click to maximize/restore. I find it surprising that this does not come by default on KDE.

I drag the window to the top for this. On KDE there's also a (configurable) keyboard shortcut (Meta + prev page, TIL, might start doing this now).

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#353

Post by pjmlp »

delaminator wrote: post #343
pjmlp wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiling window managers used to be a thing in the old days, they predate the invention of overlapping windows, there is a reason it is only a minority that reaches out to them nowadays.

Not in a GUI though. Sun Windows was overlapping, GEM was overlapping and almost everything else since then. I'm on a 5120x2160 monitor and tiling is super perfect. Can't recommend it enough.

There were others out there, e.g. Oberon, Lilith,...

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#354

Post by coldtea »

huijzer wrote: post #209
loeber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is the "it just works" operating system. As such, I think the moment that you need to declare custom workarounds like this, it kind of loses its legitimacy, and you should already be in Linux land.

Compared to my old NixOS with tiling window manager, I’d say MacOS panes just doesn’t work. I have Rectangle, but it’s no comparison to the full tiling experience. I switched for Apple Silicon nothing more

Most people wouldn't touch "NixOS" or a Linux-style "tiling window manager" with a 10-ft pole, though. For them, the tiling window manager is a good in-between.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#355

Post by pjmlp »

zamalek wrote: post #321
pjmlp wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiling window managers used to be a thing in the old days, they predate the invention of overlapping windows, there is a reason it is only a minority that reaches out to them nowadays.

Tilings are no better or no worse than floating. There are many users who would benefit from them (people who typically keep all their windows maximized), but have had literally zero exposure two them due to MacOS and Windows. Complaints about lack of window snapping in MacOS vs Windows, a loose copy of tiling, are consistent across the internet. If MacOS and Windows had native tiling support, you'd see a fight fierc…

Windows does tiling just fine, it even has layout suggestions.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#356

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

sjogress wrote: post #317
olivierestsage wrote: post #297

It really has gotten to the point where Linux offers the best option for a sane desktop experience. Watching Windows and macOS implode while KDE and Gnome slowly get better and better has really been something. Not quite at the point I'd recommend them for grandma and grandpa, but not that far off, either.

Personally replaced Windows 10 with Linux Mint on my very computer illiterate mother in law's laptop a few months back. Haven't heard any complaints so far. Linux is ready for prime time for anyone not bound to Windows/MacOS software. Personally, I'm still on MacOS for work, but all my personal devices run some form of Linux. It's been liberating to say the least.

> Linux is ready for prime time for anyone not bound to Windows/MacOS software.

I suspect in order for this to be true we'd need a PR campaign that can shift culture on the scale of civil rights.

I'm not trying to be hyperbolic or deride Linux or anything—I agree that technologically it's probably ready. Overall UX I'm slightly skeptical. But the far bigger problem is culture.

There's already been a shift away from "PCs" among younger people. The majority of my kids friends have never touched a "regular computer." I've heard an unsettling number of reports of new hires who have never heard of a spreadsheet.

I'm bringing this up because if kids aren't using PCs as much in the first place and quite literally don't know what an operating system is (and please challenge this assumption; I'm going off of anecdata) it's going to be even harder to try to create cultural awareness and acceptance of linux.

But even disregarding that there would need to be a massive, massive coordinated campaign to create a real culture shift. I'm talking superbowl ads.

Again, not trying to be pessimistic, I'm trying to say that "ready for prime time" at this point has little to do with engineering or even design and far more to do with PR. Once I started launching my own products I quickly discovered (as everyone does) that making the thing is like 5% of the job and the remaining 95% is marketing.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#358

Post by ndiddy »

eqvinox wrote: post #78
ndiddy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For window move I think it's a reaction to the popularization of putting UI in the window titlebar so there's nothing to grab onto. I don't mind it but I wish there was a dedicated "grab" button on the mouse because I find it clunky to have to use both hands to manage windows.

I can tell you the feature of Meta/Super¹+L/R click to move/resize windows has existed on Linux long before UI in the window titlebar became a thing. ¹ aka Windows key

I know it's been around for a while, but I don't recall people talking about it like it's a killer feature of Linux window management until after the "UI in the window titlebar" trend started.

Re: Resizing windows on macOS Tahoe – the saga continues

#360

Post by coldtea »

monegator wrote: post #208
loeber wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is the "it just works" operating system. As such, I think the moment that you need to declare custom workarounds like this, it kind of loses its legitimacy, and you should already be in Linux land.

Yes, the mac user faces incredible disillusion when he discovers that "just works" was just another marketing gimmick (to the likes of it doesn't get viruses!)

As a 20+ year heavy mac AND linux user, both are true.

It doesn't get viruses, especially if you don't install random junk from warez sites and stick to MAS, brew, and a few trusted vendors. Even if you do install crap, it's trojans not viruses, which are more like the Yeti (something like that might exist, but few have seen it) than a problem mac users have.

And things "just work" way way way way more than they do in Linux (and I've started using it professional as desktop and for dev work in late 1990s, I'm not weekend tourist to it), which is exactly what I expected as a pragmatist. Only some non-existing carricature user that exists in strawman arguments expected everything to be perfect.

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