The Netherlands has had a similar scheme for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist_subsidy_(Netherlands) . 1956-1987.
Yeah but then this was called a subsidy so it would never have made the HN frontpage.
Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
421–430 of 736 posts
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?
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"Paying for the world to run". The world goes regardless of those who steal wealth.
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?
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No, the banana taped to the wall is to store the value during times when the world is not running
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#424Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure I'm on record here on HN complaining about receiving covid relief checks that I don't need, and that I would much rather that money went to people who were actually struggling. Personally, I want people on the high end of earnings (such as myself) to be taxed more so that a basic income scheme like this can be available for anybody who wants it. Charge me an extra $300/month and give it to some random…
> One day, that kid will decide that living in a crap shared apartment is getting a bit old and he'll grow some ambition, get a real job, and eventually start earning enough to help sponsor the next round of deadbeats. Wow! You’re optimistic! The data shows that having at least one patent on welfare is a strong predictor that a child will grow up to spend their life on welfare. Having both parents on welfare almost g…
The idea is to give people enough of a safety net that they don't starve to death. But really, it's kinda crap to live in a shared apartment with a bunch of broke college students, living off giant bags of potatoes. Most of us have done that, and now that we can afford not to, we don't.
I'm sure there will be plenty of people with low enough ambition that they'll just stay there, subsisting. But I don't doubt they'd be doing that in their mom's basement without basic income, so I imagine that society will survive just fine.
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
This. I've never met anyone in any setting that complained about receiving too much money. If you ask pensioners if they should get higher pensions, they'll say YES. If you ask students if they should get more subsidies, they'll say YES. If you ask unemployed people if they should raise unemployment benefits, they'll say YES. If you ask people on minimum wage if they should raise the minimum wage, they'll say YES. Ev…
I'm pretty sure I'm on record here on HN complaining about receiving covid relief checks that I don't need, and that I would much rather that money went to people who were actually struggling. Personally, I want people on the high end of earnings (such as myself) to be taxed more so that a basic income scheme like this can be available for anybody who wants it. Charge me an extra $300/month and give it to some random…
"anybody who wants it"
The extent of "anybody" is the detail that contains the devil.
Anybody who? Citizen? Asylum seeker? A person who obtained asylum or other forms of protection? A 'tolerated' person who was not deported? (Duldung in Germany.)
Europe is already politically ablaze, and one of the factors of this blaze is "too many foreigners from the Third World as recipients of welfare". If you introduce any basic income scheme that doesn't totally exclude non-citizens, you can expect the people smuggling gangs of Libya and Turkey to advertise it tomorrow as a next pull factor for their business.
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#426There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…
The problem is, how do you define "art"? How do you define which art is worth subsidizing?
Am I eligible if I doodle on a piece of paper once in a while? What about if I decided to expose a urinal? Or paint a can of soup?
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#427Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh no! Seriously though, having a basic income that is not basic was bound to give issues.
It's not _universal_. A truly UBI would be handing out a fixed basic income to everyone, irrespective of individual wealth, income or needs.
Is that even possible? Someone has to pay for it. If I'm rich and I get $40,000 a year from UBI, but my direct or indirect taxes go up by $60,000 in order to fund the program, am I really receiving UBI? At some point UBI has to involve transfers between income or wealth levels. The particulars of how the program is funded determines how progressive or regressive the policy is in net.
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#428Ireland has already provided substantial benefits to artists — income from art is exempt from income tax up to a certain level. Society has not disintegrated. Speculation and anecdotes are not terribly useful but my Irish author friend is not from a rich family, nor is she well-off, but she’s able to support her husband and child in a smaller Irish city by dint of writing several books a year and stressing a lot. I d…
> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.
> Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.
Challenge
> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption.
^ That tax exemption _is_ from society. You may not agree with it, but clearly (at least some part of) "society" does.
Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
A general reason to focus on abuse instead of immediately visible outcomes: if the abuse is not dealt with properly, then that may lead to the abuse becoming increasingly widespread and blatant, which will affect future outcomes.
That is a fairly common argument, but I have yet to see any evidence to support it. In Germany, we are having a similar discussion about the Bürgergeld, i.e. unemployment benefit, which is about people abusing the Bürgergeld to the detriment of taxpayers. However, there is no actual data that show that there are a significant number of people who abuse unemployment benefits in any systematic way. The money that the s…
In the UK since 2019–20, disability benefit spending has grown by 45% in real terms and incapacity benefit spending by 26%.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/health-related-benefit-claim...
You can argue that nobody is systematically abusing the system but numbers go up. To those paying the taxes to support these benefits that sort of growth looks like abuse.