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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#411

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

dgb23 wrote: post #392
closewith wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has not disintegrated. Obviously not because of this income scheme and not complete disintegration, but Irish society is under extreme strain from housing pressures, rising living costs, and growing polarisation that is tearing at social cohesion. It's frustrating to see funds allocated to this scheme when health, housing, transport, etc are all failing apart.

That's a problem with all tax havens. They drastically increase inequality and inflate assets, especially housing and rent.

Australia isn’t a tax haven, it’s a tax supermassive black hole.

And we have wildly out of control inequality, inflated asset prices, and unaffordable housing, out the wazoo.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#412

Post by BSDobelix »

jimnotgym wrote: post #394
BSDobelix wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go Ireland, great scheme. I wish we had it over here in the UK. It's a bad scheme, it divide's your population into people who have to create "wealth", and people who create "art". Yes creating art (or preserving rare potatoes[1]) should be supported by your government if it's not survivable in a capitalistic society, however having different rights because of your occupation is not better then the middle ages. [1]…

Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?

>Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth.

That's what i meant with the potatoes, the government pays for the field with the rare potatoes, and the standardized potatoes make wealth.

>So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?

With free housing (art community's), tax free stuff (for small to medium sales etc) like it's done today. And to be honest i think 99.5% of artist dont do a full-time-art-job, most of them do other stuff too...and that's good.

Is my friend who plays the didgeridoo in his free time now an artist if he declares it's suddenly his full-time occupation?

One example, why exclude people like Geo-scientists who sometimes dont even get any money (except they work for big-oil or the state).

On a base your are right, not everything that's good for societies is compatible within a capitalistic system. But this is just a complete wrong step.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#413

Post by Xunjin »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

> There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value.

To be fair, the majority has been conditioned in thinking that only money should be your purpose, that's literally how capitalism works, even arts now is a product that need to be sold to the highest bidder, or manufactured in the millions to be sold.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#414

Post by alexpotato »

qeternity wrote: post #312
BryantD wrote: post #272

Ireland has already provided substantial benefits to artists — income from art is exempt from income tax up to a certain level. Society has not disintegrated. Speculation and anecdotes are not terribly useful but my Irish author friend is not from a rich family, nor is she well-off, but she’s able to support her husband and child in a smaller Irish city by dint of writing several books a year and stressing a lot. I d…

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption. Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

Her work can be valuable, in money terms, even of the value of her work is less than the money needed to support her family.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#415

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jasonkester wrote: post #391
joe_mamba wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I've never met anyone in any setting that complained about receiving too much money. If you ask pensioners if they should get higher pensions, they'll say YES. If you ask students if they should get more subsidies, they'll say YES. If you ask unemployed people if they should raise unemployment benefits, they'll say YES. If you ask people on minimum wage if they should raise the minimum wage, they'll say YES. Ev…

I'm pretty sure I'm on record here on HN complaining about receiving covid relief checks that I don't need, and that I would much rather that money went to people who were actually struggling. Personally, I want people on the high end of earnings (such as myself) to be taxed more so that a basic income scheme like this can be available for anybody who wants it. Charge me an extra $300/month and give it to some random…

> One day, that kid will decide that living in a crap shared apartment is getting a bit old and he'll grow some ambition, get a real job, and eventually start earning enough to help sponsor the next round of deadbeats.

Wow! You’re optimistic!

The data shows that having at least one patent on welfare is a strong predictor that a child will grow up to spend their life on welfare. Having both parents on welfare almost guarantees it.

Having single young men on welfare is one of the worst things a society can do for young men. They’d be much better off spending four years in compulsory service and learning to be useful.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#416

Post by mjanx123 »

b112 wrote: post #396
jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

All form of welfare should keep a person alive, but never comfortable. Living in a one room dwelling, with a shared bathroom is unpleasant, but safe, warm, and has a bed. Having enough for basic food, but no luxuries. My point is, welfare(not disability, welfare) should sustain. Keep safe. Alive. Free from elements. But absolutely be something a normal person wants to escape from. And there will always be those happy…

Whip them to the hamster wheel...

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#418

Post by qualitylearing »

jimnotgym wrote: post #351

There are some pretty revealing comments here. People seem to think only money has value. Then there are people who see art only as a rich person's pursuit. It can be, but it doesn't need to be. I am reminded of Daniel James also known as Gwyrosydd, his bardic name. He was a Welsh language poet, who wrote probably the greatest Welsh language song, Calon Lân (means 'a pure heart'). People throughout Wales sing this so…

[flagged]

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#419

Post by Spooky23 »

BryantD wrote: post #272

Ireland has already provided substantial benefits to artists — income from art is exempt from income tax up to a certain level. Society has not disintegrated. Speculation and anecdotes are not terribly useful but my Irish author friend is not from a rich family, nor is she well-off, but she’s able to support her husband and child in a smaller Irish city by dint of writing several books a year and stressing a lot. I d…

People get very high and mighty when it comes to other people’s getting of benefits or paying taxes.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#420

Post by qualitylearing »

jimnotgym wrote: post #394
BSDobelix wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go Ireland, great scheme. I wish we had it over here in the UK. It's a bad scheme, it divide's your population into people who have to create "wealth", and people who create "art". Yes creating art (or preserving rare potatoes[1]) should be supported by your government if it's not survivable in a capitalistic society, however having different rights because of your occupation is not better then the middle ages. [1]…

Or it divides them into people that create cultural wealth and people who create mere monetary wealth. So you do agree that art should be supported by government I see, so how would you do it?

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