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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#261

Post by lan321 »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #202
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

Because any modern unemployment insurance program (which Ireland has) will be a percentage based on salary. Struggling artist aren't exactly making regular money like a formerly employed salesperson or carpet installer would be.

Note that many carpet installers and other handyman also do work (partially) under the table so their salary isn't representative of their regular income either. This also fluctuates a lot based on season. It's the cost of being (partially) self employed.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#262

Post by s_dev »

CalRobert wrote: post #227

The frustrating thing about this program is that it is not possible to avail of this unless you are ALREADY an artist. So if you gave up art because you had bills and kids and needed to support yourself or a family, you're SOL. The only person I know getting this money was already semi-retired after selling their house in London and retiring to the Irish countryside, and basically just noodles around on the guitar no…

>The frustrating thing about this program is that it is not possible to avail of this unless you are ALREADY an artist.

Correct, the programme is FOR artists. How could this possibly work otherwise? By somebody stating they intend to become an talented artist?

How else would you gauge merit if not through their portfolio of prior work?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#263

Post by pastage »

Swizec wrote: post #218
s_dev wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irish here. It's a cultural thing. Ireland is the only country in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument. Art is seen as a worthwhile endeavour even if it can't necessarily support itself as a private endeavour. It's for the same reason galleries and museums are subsidised by the government. Anyone can call themselves an artist but to receive this money you would have to have a portfolio of work that…

We have a similar scheme in Slovenia. Don't know the details but there's the concept of a "free artist". At a minimum you need a registered business, regular exhibitions or performances in your field, you have to register with the ministry of culture, and can't have a job. Contract work is allowed and encouraged. Also you are expected to apply when the government issues a Call For Creatives. I think you get paid mini…

Interesting concept, seems like it is a way to pay less taxes as an artist, not really a pay but it will make it easier to live. Not sure about the selection process though..

> Self-employed in culture can be given the right to pay social security contributions from the state budget.

https://e-uprava.gov.si/si/podrocja/izobrazevanje-kultura/za...

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#264

Post by devmor »

terminalshort wrote: post #226
tropdrop wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is that you don't realize how much of that stuff from Walmart had artistic processes embedded into it along the production line. Did those shower curtains have a design? Did your sweater have a color and style? Probably so, but you never pay attention to how the world of "fine art" refracts into your daily life. If the products were cheap, it's likely someone unpaid is responsible for the design. S…

Artists who were paid for by willing buyers, not tax payers who don't have a choice.

Your taxes subsidize walmart and you don’t have a choice either.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#265

Post by sgt »

I know a guy in Norway who got the "statsstipendiat" fund which basically gives him a very decent salary for the rest of his life, no questions asked. All he need to do is just continue doing whatever he's doing, make art and so on.

That came as a big relief as he always struggled to make money, but it's still not a thing that a lot of people get.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#266

Post by keepamovin »

CalRobert wrote: post #227

The frustrating thing about this program is that it is not possible to avail of this unless you are ALREADY an artist. So if you gave up art because you had bills and kids and needed to support yourself or a family, you're SOL. The only person I know getting this money was already semi-retired after selling their house in London and retiring to the Irish countryside, and basically just noodles around on the guitar no…

> So if you gave up art because you had bills and kids and needed to support yourself or a family, you're SOL.

Lacks real courage. Not committed. Next!

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#267

Post by mantas »

metalman wrote: post #99
mantas wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can go and do normal jobs like grocery clerks. While doing their art in free time. Like many famous artists were doing.

artists dont do "normal" and generaly experience reality from a particular, and personal point of view, and grocerie store managers and young artists will almost certainly have mutualy antagonistic points of view. artists thrive in random spontainious environments, but forget about food, so we give them money, that they give to normal grocery store clerks, and we all forgo the seething frustration that would result f…

What I see among artist friends, they have no problems holding a job. But their art is not exactly „bill-paying“. It's not bad, it's just not commercializable mainstream. At best it covers their expenses for studios, equipment and so on.

For that crowd, money for 3 years is not really interesting. It would ruin their existing (smaller or bigger) non-artsy careers. But their art, without significant mainstream changes, has no chance to cover a living. Even after focusing on it for 3 years.

I don't see a point to give such crowd a free ride either. They're fully capable society members. I don't see a difference between such artist getting a free ride vs me getting free money to ride my bicycle because I'd maybe do some cool shit if I had more time. Or maybe I should get a handout to do some opensource? Code is also art anyway.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#268

Post by Thlom »

sgt wrote: post #265

I know a guy in Norway who got the "statsstipendiat" fund which basically gives him a very decent salary for the rest of his life, no questions asked. All he need to do is just continue doing whatever he's doing, make art and so on. That came as a big relief as he always struggled to make money, but it's still not a thing that a lot of people get.

That being said, it seems like this is being phased out. No new "statsstipendiat" has been awarded since 2019. Before that it was mostly 1-3 persons awarded each year.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#269

Post by george11119 »

CalRobert wrote: post #227

The frustrating thing about this program is that it is not possible to avail of this unless you are ALREADY an artist. So if you gave up art because you had bills and kids and needed to support yourself or a family, you're SOL. The only person I know getting this money was already semi-retired after selling their house in London and retiring to the Irish countryside, and basically just noodles around on the guitar no…

i swear I've seen this comment about a guy who sold his house and getting basic income before

edit: found it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45590900#45591439

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#270

Post by mantas »

bell-cot wrote: post #85
mantas wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for encouraging people to create art. But I think people who benefit from this won’t be artists. But people who are good at making money off artsy projects. I’d see much more value in investing in supply and demand. First, provide free studios with arts supplies, music instruments and so on. Next, force government agencies to hire local artists. Make municipalities have live music for local events and hire lo…

> ...I think people who benefit... 325 Euros/week sounds like basic rent & food & transportation. Not artsy projects with enough spare Euros for someone to skim serious money off from. Providing "free" studios, supplies, instruments, etc. sounds like a scheme to give politicians more photo ops and bureaucrats more jobs. Why can't the artists just source exactly what they think they need from existing supply chains?

> 325 Euros/week sounds like basic rent & food & transportation. Not artsy projects with enough spare Euros for someone to skim serious money off from.

Exactly. But it's a nice addition for „project-conscious“ crowd who can add one more income stream.

> Providing "free" studios, supplies, instruments, etc. sounds like a scheme to give politicians more photo ops and bureaucrats more jobs

Some libraries here started providing free studios with some basic instruments. I hear it was a hit with long wait times. It's awesome for artsy people who want to get together and jam with friends on saturday morning. Artsy people neighbours also love it that they don't have to hear said jams too :)

It's also great for kids who want to give it a shot. It's easier to come in and find some instruments than try to get some used stuff just to play.

I'm all for enabling people to do artsy stuff en-masse. The more people give it a shot, the better. Results don't matter, playing and creating something (no matter how crappy) is important.

IMO „mass-playing-with-art“ has much better ROI than handouts to let a selected crop of people pretend they're living off their art.

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