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Claude Code is being dumbed down?

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Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#471

Post by bethekidyouwant »

bcherny wrote: post #419
extr wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I mentioned this in the thread (I am the guy in the big GH issue who actually used verbose mode and gave specific likes/dislikes), but I find it frustrating that ctrl+o still seems to truncate at strange boundaries. I am looking at an open CC session right now with verbose mode enabled - works pretty well and I'm glad you're fixing the subagent thing. But when I hit ctrl+o, I only see more detailed output for th…

Yes totally. ctrl+o used to show all messages, but this is one of the tricky things about building in a terminal: because many terminals are quite slow, it is hard to render a large amount of output at once without causing tearing/stutter. That said, we recently rewrote our renderer to make it much more efficient, so we can bump up the default a bit. Let me see what it feels like to show the last 10-20 messages -- fi…

Why would you tailor your product for people that don’t know how to install a good terminal? Just tell them to install whatever terminal you recommend if they see tearing.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#472

Post by DANmode »

johndough wrote: post #403
phi-go wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that?

DeepSeek had a theoretical profit margin of 545 % [1] with much inferior GPUs at 1/60th the API price. Anthropic's Opus 4.6 is a bit bigger, but they'd have to be insanely incompetent to not make a profit on inference. [1] https://github.com/deepseek-ai/open-infra-index/blob/main/20...

> they'd have to be insanely incompetent to not make a profit on inference.

Are you aware of how many years Amazon didn’t turn a profit?

Not agreeing with the tactic - just…are you aware of it?

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#473

Post by ayewo »

qwertox wrote: post #306

I absolutely love reading thoughts and see the commands it uses. It teaches me new stuff, and I think this is what young people need: be able to know WHAT it is doing and WHY it is doing it. And have the ability to discuss with another agent about what the agent and me are trying to archive, and we can ask them questions we have without disturbing the flow, but seeing the live output. Regarding the thoughts: it also…

> While refactoring my code it noticed that it needs to see what this command is which it is invoking, so it even went so far as to search through vs code's user data to find the recent files history if it can find out more about that command... I stopped it and told it that if it has problems, it should tell me.

TIL that there's an especially apt xkcd comic for this scenario: "Zealous Autoconfig"

https://xkcd.com/416/

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#474

Post by dimitri-vs »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #429
bcherny wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think folks might be crossing wires a bit. To make it so you can see full file paths, we repurposed verbose mode to enable the old explicit file output, while hiding more details behind ctrl+o. In effect, we've evolved verbose mode to be multi-state, so that it lets you toggle back to the old behavior while giving you a way to see even more verbose output, while still defaulting everyone else to the condensed view.…

Honestly, I just want to be able to control precisely what I see via config.json. It will probably differ depending on the project. This is a developer tool, I don't see why you'd shy away from providing granular configuration (alongside reasonable defaults). I actually miss being able to see all of the thinking, for example, because I could tell more quickly when the model was making a wrong assumption and intervene…

Exactly. If a user wants a simpler experience there is now the Claude Cowork option.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#475

Post by CjHuber »

bcherny wrote: post #452
ctoth wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we take accessibility seriously Do you guys have a screen reader user on the dev team? Is verbose mode the same as the old mode, where only file paths are spoken? Or does it have other text in it? Because I tried to articulate, and may have failed. More text is usually bad for me. It must be consumed linearly. I need specific text. Quality over quantity

"Is verbose mode the same as the old mode, where only file paths are spoken?" -- yes, this is exactly what the new verbose mode is.

And how to get to the old verbose mode then...?

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#476

Post by sensanaty »

massysett wrote: post #404
akdev1l wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not safe, before even knowing if a site has the content you want you can be redirected to malware through ad networks not even joking

On an up to date Safari on Mac, not a realistic concern, and if it were, I’d use security software, not an ad blocker.

At $JOB IT actually bundles uBlock in all the browsers available to us, as per CIA (or one of those 3-letter agencies, might've even been the NSA) guidelines it's a very important security tool. I work in banking.

Modern advertisement is malware.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#479

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bcherny wrote: post #421
noodletheworld wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you respond to the comment that; given the log trace: “Did something 2 times” That may as well not be shown at all in default mode? What useful information is imparted by “Read 4 files”? You have two issues here: 1) making verbose mode better. Sure. 2) logging useless information in default. If you're not imparting any useful information, claude may as well just show a spinner.

It's a balance -- we don't want to hide everything away, so you have an understanding of what the model is doing. I agree that with future models, as intelligence and trust increase, we may be able to hide more, but I don't think we're there yet.

That's perfectly reasonable, but I genuinely don't understand how "read 2 files" is ever useful at all. What am I supposed to do with this information? How can it help me redirect the model?

Like, I'm open to the idea that I'm the one using your software the wrong way, since obviously you know more about it than I do. What would you recommend I do with the knowledge of how many files Claude has read? Is there a situation where this number can tell me whether the model is on the right track?

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