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Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

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Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#131

Post by AlexandrB »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #105
gorjusborg wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really about the individual people. They're probably all pretty normal interpersonally. Our systems reward this behavior, so people do it. Sorry, but people who do things they normally wouldn't because they are rewarded are not good people. They may be 'normal' in a distribution sense, but that doesn't mean the behavior becomes acceptable through it becoming commonplace.

The idea is compelling to consider though - I just saw a clip of comedian Romesh Ranganathan saying that a reason he hasn't cheated on his wife is lack of opportunity; another side of the same idea. Perhaps we would all be shit-head billionaires if given the opportunity. Most of us stay within our ethical lane, but then we don't have the money to afford a private island to abuse people on; we don't have to resist the…

> Perhaps we would all be shit-head billionaires if given the opportunity.

Statistically, if we were living in WWII Germany, most of us would not become freedom fighters. We'd keep our head down and support the regime. I think most people like to think of themselves as the exception but that's just "cope".

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#132

Post by toephu2 »

whatthe12899 wrote: post #97
toephu2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the reduction in crime is not solely due to Flock, but is has definitely helped. what's the theory? murderers see flock cams and decide not to murder? most of the general public doesn't even know what these cameras are (or that they even exist).

Lets take the current example of the famous kidnapping of the TV anchor's mother in AZ for example.

If Arizona was blanketed in CCTVs, do you think this kidnapping would have happened?

And if it still did happen, I'm 100% sure the suspects would have been caught by now (11th+ day since the disappearance now).

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#133

Post by blibble »

AlexandrB wrote: post #128
idle_zealot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about the individual people. They're probably all pretty normal interpersonally. Our systems reward this behavior, so people do it. Surveillance is desired by the politically and economically powerful, and the contravening forces are weak and largely unorganized. Do we punish politicians or businesses for bad behavior? No? Then they'll engage in whatever behavior advances their interests. You could pu…

> Surveillance is desired by the politically and economically powerful It's also desired by consumers. Parents love tracking their children, spouses track each other. Everyone wants to get a camera to catch porch pirates. Let's not pretend this is something being forced on us by some external evil. The evil is coming from inside the house.

this is entirely misses the point about exactly what makes it dangerous

there's nothing bad with having a camera to spot porch pirates, as long as the data stays private

it becomes problematic when everyone's hooked up to one central place (plus the "AI")

same as the common talking points about CCTV, which always miss the distinction that there's minimal risk if it's only going to some video recorder in the back of the store

it only becomes dangerous when every shop and house are fed back to one central location

and the general public do not understand the difference

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#135

Post by toephu2 »

nilamo wrote: post #129
toephu2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's beside the point? Gaining security by losing freedom was always on the table. What's interesting is the cultural shift toward not caring about losing freedom.

Everything I want to do in public I can still do.

What "freedom" is lost? I gain security and lose no freedoms (unless you are doing something illegal).

When property crime is up 53%.. plenty of people are willing to lose "freedom" whatever you are referring to, in exchange for safety.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#136

Post by xboxnolifes »

toephu2 wrote: post #89
Animats wrote: post #82

They don't have a lost-kid feature? In China, kids are accustomed to face recognition early.[1] The kids are checking into school via fare gates with face recognition. Here's an ad for Hikvision surveillance systems showing the whole system.[2] Hikvision has a whole series of videos presenting their concept of a kindly, gentler Big Brother. This is probably the most amusing.[3] Amazon's concept is in some ways more p…

[flagged]

Not who you are replying to, but I think mass surveillance is bad and evil, period. So, any person or company contributing toward mass surveillance is bad.

Most bad things have some good part you can point to. Mass surveillance and all of the other police and government aiding technologies usually point to improved conviction rates or something similar. But making police more efficient at convicting people isn't the only goal of society. That's only one part of what makes up a country and it's society. And, as the saying goes: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#137

Post by ocdtrekkie »

whiskey-one wrote: post #109
bayindirh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the series Person of Interest, there's a scene where you can see racks of servers which allows to track everyone in a city (New York?). When I first saw the scene I said: "This amount of servers is not remotely enough to pull something like this". When I think of the scene now: "These amount of servers can do much more than the scene portrays". I mean, most of the tech presented in the series is almost standard op…

Subsequently in PoI we see two imperfect super-intelligent AIs let loose in the real world fight each other for domination and their objectives. For me, it’s a question of when, not if this happens in real life.

Person of Interest is really good. Unfortunately I learned too much about the lead's IRL behavior, and it's on my shelf of shows I'll enjoy once the involved parties aren't collecting royalties anymore.

It absolutely takes people on a police procedural that drags viewers unwittingly into watching a science fiction show, and I'm totally here for all of it.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#138

Post by JambalayaJimbo »

steezeburger wrote: post #81
dylan604 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the same willies as something like 1984 or Black Mirror? All they are doing is taking some idea present now, and just taking it too the darker places of it while society is currently only seeing the rosy side of things. It's stories like this that might be first time someone might actually consider other implications of ideas.

I think they take issue with how it was ultimately okay to do to catch the Joker as long as Batman didn't use it and gave power to Luscious who resigned, instead of just calling it out as terrible and not doing it. That's how I read their comment anyway. "apologia"

Batman is a vigilante using brutal violence to pursue his goals outside of any legal system. The whole concept of the comics, movies, etc. is predicated on him being a virtuous guy that you can trust will always do the right thing (mostly, I'm sure he's a villain or anti-hero in some of them). The surveillance system really isn't anything different and it was ridiculous that Luscious had a problem with it in the first place.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#139

Post by twostorytower »

bayindirh wrote: post #91
mjr00 wrote: post #20

The Dark Knight was released in 2008. In that movie, Batman hijacks citizens' cellphones to track down the Joker, and it's presented as a major moral and ethical dilemma as part of the movie's overall themes. The only way Batman remains a "good guy" in the eyes of the audience is by destroying the entire thing once he's done. Crazy to think that less than two decades later, an even more powerful surveillance technolo…

In the series Person of Interest, there's a scene where you can see racks of servers which allows to track everyone in a city (New York?). When I first saw the scene I said: "This amount of servers is not remotely enough to pull something like this". When I think of the scene now: "These amount of servers can do much more than the scene portrays". I mean, most of the tech presented in the series is almost standard op…

I believe they also pull this off with a fleet of PS3s, at one point.

Re: Amazon Ring's lost dog ad sparks backlash amid fears of mass surveillance

#140

Post by eddyg »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #134

Just airtag your dog? Jesus Christ.

Quoting from the press release: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/01/apple-introduces-new-...

"Designed exclusively for tracking objects, and not people or pets"

(emphasis mine)

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