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Claude Code is being dumbed down?

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Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#261

Post by NinjaTrance »

sixtyj wrote: post #82
jascha_eng wrote: post #44

There are a lot of non developer claude code users these days. The hype about vibe coding lets everyone think they can now be an engineer. Problem is if anthropic caters to that crowd the devs that are using it to do somewhat serious engineering tasks and don't believe in the "run an army of parallel agents and pray" methodology are being alienated. Maybe Claude Code web or desktop could be targeted to these new vibe…

If 80% of their paying customers are vibe coders then it makes sense to make IDE “easy” for them. “Hey, Claude, make a website. Don’t make mistakes.” Or, it could serve as a textbook example how to make your real future long term customers (=fluent coders) angry… what a strategy :)

Microsoft fell into this trap in the 90s -- they believed that they could hide the DOS prompt, and make everything "easier" with wizards where you just go through a series of screens clicking "next", "next", "finish".

Yes, it was easier. But it dumbed down a generation of developers.

It took them two decades to try to come up with Powershell, but it was too late.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#262

Post by sdwr »

idopmstuff wrote: post #180
vintagedave wrote: post #117

> That’s it. “Read 3 files.” Which files? Doesn’t matter. “Searched for 1 pattern.” What pattern? Who cares. Product manager here. Cynically, this is classic product management: simplify and remove useful information under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism if you're more overt about your influences. It's something that as an industry we should be over by now. It requires deep understa…

Also product manager here. Not at all cynically, this is classic product management - simplify by removing information that is useful to some users but not others. We shouldn't be over it by now. It's good to think carefully about how you're using space in your UI and what you're presenting to the user. You're saying it's bad because they removed useful information, but then why isn't Anthropic's suggestion of using…

I'm sure the goal is that reading files is something you debug, not monitor, like individual network requests in a browser.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#263

Post by stillpointlab »

I'm old, so I remember when Skyrim came out. At the time, people were howling about how "dumbed down" the RPG had become compared to previous versions. They had simplified so many systems. Seemed to work out for them overall.

I understand the article writers frustration. He liked a thing about a product he uses and they changed the product. He is feeling angry and he is expressing that anger and others are sharing in that.

And I'm part of another group of people. I would notice the files being searched without too much interest. Since I pay a monthly rate, I don't care about optimizing tokens. I only care about the quality of the final output.

I think the larger issue is that programmers are feeling like we are losing control. At first we're like, I'll let it auto-complete but no more. Then it was, I'll let it scaffold a project but not more. Each step we are ceding ground. It is strange to watch someone finally break on "They removed the names of the files the agent was operating on". Of all of the lost points of control this one seems so trivial. But every camels back has a breaking point and we can't judge the straw that does it.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#264

Post by NewsaHackO »

idopmstuff wrote: post #236
NinjaTrance wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It requires deep understanding of customer usage to know whether it's a mistake at all Software developers like customizable tools. That's why IDEs still have "vim keybindings" and many other options. Your user is highly skilled - let him decide what he wants to see.

There are a lot of Claude Code users who aren't software developers. Maybe they've decided that group is the one they want to cater to? I recognize that won't be a popular decision with the HN crowd, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong one.

Yeah, I made a similar point about the tone of ChatGPT responses; to me, I can't imagine why someone would want less information when working and tuning an AI model. However, something tells me they actually have hard evidence that users respond better with less information regardless of what the loud minority say online, and are following that.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#266

Post by Robdel12 »

I’m a heavy Claude code user and it’s pretty clear they’re starting to bend under their vibe coding. Each Claude code update breaks a ton of stuff, has perf issues, etc.

And then this. They want to own your dev workflow and for some reason believe Claude code is special enough to be closed source. The react TUI is kinda a nightmare to deal with I bet.

I will say, very happy with the improvements made to Codex 5.3. I’ve been spending A LOT more time with codex and the entire agent toolchain is OSS.

Not sure what anthropic’s plan is, but I haven’t been a fan of their moves in the past month and a half.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#267

Post by system2 »

operatingthetan wrote: post #175
fcatalan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approving commands you don't understand doesn't seem ideal

People are handing over their entire system to openclaw, so that's about where we are.

Because we haven't heard about the disaster stories yet, give it some time and see how people will talk about it as if it were a virus.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#268

Post by oxag3n »

So much for human replacement.

Map it to a workplace:

- Hey Joe, why did you stop adding code diff to your review requests?

- Most reviewers find it simpler. You can always run tcpdump on our shared drive to see what exactly was changed.

- I'm the only one reviewing your code in this company...

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#269

Post by mrandish »

vintagedave wrote: post #117

> That’s it. “Read 3 files.” Which files? Doesn’t matter. “Searched for 1 pattern.” What pattern? Who cares. Product manager here. Cynically, this is classic product management: simplify and remove useful information under the guise of 'improving the user experience' or perhaps minimalism if you're more overt about your influences. It's something that as an industry we should be over by now. It requires deep understa…

> Many people have been taught that streamlining and removal is positive.

Over the past ten years or so the increasing de-featuring of software under the guise of 'simplification' has become a critical issue for power users. For any GUI apps which have a mixed base of consumer and power users, I mostly don't update them anymore because they're as likely to get net worse vs better.

It's weird that companies like MSFT seem puzzled why so many users refuse to update Windows or Office to major new feature versions.

Re: Claude Code is being dumbed down?

#270

Post by NewsaHackO »

tern wrote: post #135

Claude's brand is sliding dangerously close to "the Microsoft of AI." DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS I write mainly out of the hope that some Anthropic employees read this: you need an internal crusade to fight these impulses. Take the high road in the short-term and you may avoid being disrupted in the long-term. It's a culture issue. Probably your strongest tool is specifically educating people abou…

Huh? Why wouldn’t developers (who probably have stock options in Claude) try to prevent becoming 'the Microsoft of AI'? That's probably what they are actively trying to do.
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