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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#591

Post by lifestyleguru »

tuetuopay wrote: post #556
sajithdilshan wrote: post #450

Even if somehow EU is able to pull this off it would be a nightmare in terms of user experience. I live in Germany and this is how I would imagine it would work base on my experience in Germany. 1. You first need to install an app (because you want to use tap to pay) 2. Then you need to download another app to authenticate the first app 3. But to set up the 2nd app you need to wait for an actual physical mail which c…

You forgot the part where they send you two distinct snail mails, one with the username and one with a one-time password, for a double chance the post will lose one of the envelopes! Or the part where they silently truncate your new password to 6 digits because muh security . I guess France and Germany are siblings in kafkaesque administrative shenanigans.

In Germany if they silently truncate your password and you contact their customer service, they will scream at you for not remembering your password. I guess this beats France.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#592

Post by vkou »

olalonde wrote: post #303
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

> If you want to switch the world to a debit-based system where economic transactions are limited by cash on hand, I'd argue that's a poorer and less dynamic world than the one we're operating in today. Disagree. Credit has its uses, but debit is superior for the vast majority consumer transactions: lower fees, lower risk, instant settlement, easy P2P transfers, and broader accessibility. That we've become used to cr…

Instant settlement is an anti-feature.

I don't want some asshole to be able to instantly drain my bank account. If I did, I'd be carrying a suitcase of cash around with me.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#593

Post by rockskon »

digiown wrote: post #376
joe_mamba wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, ICC judges lost access to their O365 work email accounts. Worst the US can do to me is turn off my Steam, and Gmail but I can easily live without those. Now imagine being debanked by your own government because they don't like what you're saying and becoming unemployed, homeless and dead. I don't think they're remotely comparable. For example, a few years ago, a power tripping gov bureaucrat turned off my unemp…

It's all the same. How is suing Google any different, if you instead get debanked by Google for violating their "terms"? The only solution is untraceable, permissionless money, like Monero. Why do you think governments try so hard to ban it?

Because financial sanctions are one of our main tools to pressure enemy countries into calming the fuck down in hopes of avoiding an actual kinetic conflict.

In 2025, North Korea managed to steal from the world over 10% of its GDP worth in cryptocurrency.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#594

Post by timbit42 »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #466
unixhero wrote: post #276

I for one enjoy my cash back points with American Express. This is not a commercial.

After paying 5% Commission to them in the overpriced stores that take it. Great Job, you played yourself

If the store increases prices due to cash back cards, and I don't have a cash back card, then I'm losing. If I have a cash back card, then I'm losing less.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#595

Post by otterley »

simplyluke wrote: post #481
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

> It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. It wouldn't be hacker news without a comment like this. I haven't personally worked in finance, but I've had a lot of friends do it. It _absolutely_ is complicated. It's not too complicated for a nation or the EU to do it in house, but no, there's a bit more there than "Claude make me a ledger"

My usual response to claims like this is “if it’s so easy, why haven’t you done it yet?”

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#596

Post by torginus »

eastbayjake wrote: post #97
ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

In Europe, credit cards for individual use are extremely rare. I've only had one to manage a company expenses account.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#597

Post by csomar »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

The fact that Asean and India did it, just like that, shows that the technical difficulty is no longer the issue.

Visa and Mastercard exists because of US hegemony. The Europeans just put their heads in the sand for a long time and accepted the "superiority" of American payment solutions because it benefited their geopolitical play at the time.

Some sources (Old and New):

- https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/exclusive-visa-comp...

- https://jakartaglobe.id/business/indonesia-expands-qris-reac...

- https://www.china-briefing.com/news/wto-china-unionpay-rulin...

- https://valorinternational.globo.com/foreign-affairs/news/20...

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#598

Post by Supermancho »

otterley wrote: post #595
simplyluke wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. It wouldn't be hacker news without a comment like this. I haven't personally worked in finance, but I've had a lot of friends do it. It _absolutely_ is complicated. It's not too complicated for a nation or the EU to do it in house, but no, there's a bit more there than "Claude make me a ledger"

My usual response to claims like this is “if it’s so easy, why haven’t you done it yet?”

Trolling is not insightful. A number of other companies already have "done it" and are in use across the world. The question is why aren't western nations ALL using alternates yet? The article is pointing out that a new attempt is gaining political momentum, which answers the question.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#599

Post by gib444 »

dzonga wrote: post #559

the UK will be caught in the middle and lose out. Not part of US not part of EU either. what a losing proposition. if it can be a card network with fraud protections that visa offer -- this will easily overtake Visa, Mastercard Brazil with Pix have already proved this.

> the UK will be caught in the middle and lose out.

Not necessarily

If we can have visa and MasterCard while not being part of the US, we can potentially take part in whatever the EU creates

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#600

Post by torginus »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #226
memsom wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have said "true", or at least - I would have said "I do, but never incurring a charge on next month's bill", but with services like Flex from Monzo, you can actually get credit over 3 months with 0% interest rates, which not only makes buying stuff more likely, but spreads out the costs. It doesn't solve over spending though.

How much is it? You could draw all of it and put in a a 2x leveraged SP500 ETF :-D for 3 month and then return the money :-D

Just don't let the credit card companies find out. The reason they give the money to you and not the stock market is to diversify their portfolio.

Imagine if all the shares in Bank X were paid for by loans issued by Bank X.

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