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Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

europeanbusinessmagazine.com

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Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#551

Post by jasonfarnon »

avianlyric wrote: post #459
eastbayjake wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little shocked that of all the comments so far, no one has mentioned the financial risk borne by this whole value chain. OP is operating as if it's just a debit system moving money from one account to another but: - For many consumers there isn't sufficient money in the account to settle all the one-time and ongoing transactions they are liable for -- credit cards are giving you a revolving loan, there's risk i…

None of what you’ve mentioned has anything to do with Visa and Mastercard. Visa and Mastercard are just payment networks, their whole business is literally just transporting transaction information from payment terminals to banks and payment processors, plus keeping track of all the numbers (which is pretty important). Payment networks don’t provide credit or any kind of liquidity whatsoever, that entirely provided b…

I had no idea visa/mc didn't bear the cost of fraud. I remember Paypal almost getting killed by fraud in the early days, and I always thought of Paypal as basically replicating visa/mc for online purchases. I didn't realize they were doing so much more than visa/mc by assuming fraud risk.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#552

Post by tuetuopay »

tlogan wrote: post #344
Beretta_Vexee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wero is just one of many systems available that allow individuals to make transfers easily and almost instantly. There is also Bizum in Iberia and Blik in Poland. These instant phone-to-phone transfers are very popular, especially among young people who rarely use cash. Wero itself was launched by large banking networks because they had no solution to compete with neo-banks such as Lydia, which was a pioneer in this…

I think the misunderstanding is that when I say “credit card,” I do not mean a physical card. I have not used a physical card in years. In the US, when people hear Mastercard or Visa, they usually associate that with a credit card (virtual or physical), meaning the money is not taken directly from your bank account. You pay the balance later, which gives you credit and strong dispute protections. Debit or ATM cards a…

And I thing the misunderstanding here is that Europeans don't really use credit cards: we use the term "credit card" when we should use "debit card", but that's language for you. Literally, you have to go out of your way to get an actual credit card instead of the ubiquitous debit card everybody has.

And in Europe, when people hear Mastercard or Visa, they just associate the name with refused payments at points of sale depending on the luck they had with the merchant, or the foreign country, etc.

I do agree that in this case, picking MC/VISA is not really important. When I changed banks a few years ago, it so happened that I switched from a Visa to a Mastercard. Nothing changed save for the logo on the card.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#553

Post by dathinab »

Anonyneko wrote: post #92
dathinab wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the payment network. The EU already has their own payment network, too. It's about card payment and even if things ending up in your network they first going through visa. And it's about online payment (PayPal).

Not in Russia, payments made with a Visa card do not go through Visa any longer, at all. You can even use expired Visa cards (with most banks).

yes,

but also this means that major security features don't work anymore creating a higher risk for the bank

and Russia prepared for this for years after the sanctions related to the annexation of Crimea

and Russia kinda,nearly cut fully ties for the US

and it still hurt them quite a bit anyway

so such thing would be more like a last resort emergency solution then the "getting less dependent on while not cutting all ties" situations we currently have

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#554

Post by tuetuopay »

prmoustache wrote: post #492
mathis wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But cards are offline from the perspective of the consumer. Sometimes even on the merchant side of things. Not that it is an important distinction nowadays--but I have definitely tried to pay with a merchant's own app-based payment solution that refused to load due to a bad cellular connection. I haven't looked into how Wero will handle this.

Most payment terminal nowadays use 4g network and it is not uncommon to see shop/restaurants employees in some areas trying to desperately get a signal by moving the terminal close to the door or window.

They need much much less data than your phone. They could process several transactions with less data it would take for your phone to load the HTML of the payment page, let alone the Javascript or the bank's logo.

Also, such terminals often use multi-carrier data plans that can use the best carrier available, while your own phone is stuck with one of the options (of course, you always have the worst one).

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#555

Post by [deleted] »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #8

I always find it entertaining to hear people try to argue that what these companies do is soooooo difficult and that's why they're valuable. It's just multiple computers keeping a balance. It's not complicated. No, these companies keep themselves in power not because they've solved such a difficult problem that nobody else can, but because they have a moat which they protect. Time to do away with these foreign entiti…

[deleted]

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#556

Post by tuetuopay »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #450

Even if somehow EU is able to pull this off it would be a nightmare in terms of user experience. I live in Germany and this is how I would imagine it would work base on my experience in Germany. 1. You first need to install an app (because you want to use tap to pay) 2. Then you need to download another app to authenticate the first app 3. But to set up the 2nd app you need to wait for an actual physical mail which c…

You forgot the part where they send you two distinct snail mails, one with the username and one with a one-time password, for a double chance the post will lose one of the envelopes! Or the part where they silently truncate your new password to 6 digits because muh security.

I guess France and Germany are siblings in kafkaesque administrative shenanigans.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#557

Post by digiown »

linkregister wrote: post #531
digiown wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah money laundering, the government's 2nd favorite excuse to bypass due process, remove freedom, and impose arbitrary punishments, after "emergency" and before "think of the children". The government can prosecute money laundering and all the other crimes, but it's not an excuse to impose extrajudicial punishment. Until they stop, having some cash and crypto is your only means of defense.

I understand your threat model is centered around the risk of a government persecuting you. This will naturally conflict with incentives of people whose threat model centers around a lower severity but higher frequency event of systematic violence performed by criminal enterprises, with a necessary condition being ease of moving money. Both representative and totalitarian governments seek to aid investigation of crim…

I'm not necessarily opposed to KYC or even government being able to audit transactions in general. But there is too few legal protections both from the bank and the from the government itself for this to be acceptable in a free society.

It's not entirely hopeless I guess. For what it's worth, the US government recently issued an EO that purportedly stops banks from debanking you for political reasons. Hopefully a future administration would take care of the other part.

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#558

Post by NicuCalcea »

wolvoleo wrote: post #378
NicuCalcea wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after a few years of living in the UK, I could not get a credit score from any of the three or so providers because they said they didn't have enough information about me. I guess being on the electoral roll and paying bills on time just wasn't enough. Not having a credit score isn't necessarily a big problem, as banks use it for context rather than making decisions purely based on it, but I did see some advice…

Ah yes I see, being new to the country does not help instill their confidence either. True. From your nickname it sounds like you are from Romania so if that's so there might be a dose of xenofobia included there as well. That is kinda big in the UK right now, the whole Brexit was fuelled by it, sadly, especially concerning eastern Europe. I was on the receiving end of some of it myself too, being called 'a non-natio…

Close, I'm from Moldova! Not sure that it played much into it, this is all automated, nobody's manually looked at my score. I reckon they just needed n data points about me to show me a number, and I had n-1 (not that they'd tell you).

Re: Europe's $24T Breakup with Visa and Mastercard Has Begun

#559

Post by dzonga »

the UK will be caught in the middle and lose out.

Not part of US not part of EU either.

what a losing proposition.

if it can be a card network with fraud protections that visa offer -- this will easily overtake Visa, Mastercard

Brazil with Pix have already proved this.

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