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The Great College Hoax

forbes.com

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Re: The Great College Hoax

#81

Post by jcromartie »

Xichekolas wrote: post #29
blankity_blank wrote: post #9

What the hell were the couple in example #1 doing with their $200K income? If they wanted to pay off their debt in 10 years, they'd need about $2800 a month, assuming the rate was the full 12% the whole time. I agree with a lot of the article, but a couple of idiots who pissed away the fruits of their education on too many vacations and fancy cars (obviously not any real investments, otherwise they could have refinan…

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. Sadly I know _many_ people that make six figures and complain about things like student debt and credit card debt. One guy claimed he was lower middle class (he was making $110k at the time, with only a wife, who didn't work, to support). If $110k is lower middle class , then I must be in poverty. It's like the idea that they can lower their living standard slight…

It's always relative. People seem to define "rich" as "someone with more money than me."

Re: The Great College Hoax

#82

Post by jcromartie »

Xichekolas wrote: post #29
blankity_blank wrote: post #9

What the hell were the couple in example #1 doing with their $200K income? If they wanted to pay off their debt in 10 years, they'd need about $2800 a month, assuming the rate was the full 12% the whole time. I agree with a lot of the article, but a couple of idiots who pissed away the fruits of their education on too many vacations and fancy cars (obviously not any real investments, otherwise they could have refinan…

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that. Sadly I know _many_ people that make six figures and complain about things like student debt and credit card debt. One guy claimed he was lower middle class (he was making $110k at the time, with only a wife, who didn't work, to support). If $110k is lower middle class , then I must be in poverty. It's like the idea that they can lower their living standard slight…

It's always relative. People seem to define "rich" as "someone with more money than me."

Re: The Great College Hoax

#83

Post by Retric »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #80
tptacek wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a gross oversimplification. Drink a $5 cup of Starbucks every working day, and you've added $100 to your budget. Cut that expense; congratulations, you've saved 3% of your college loan payment. (Can you tell I've had this argument with Erin before?) The big-ticket items I don't trust you're considering: * Child care will cost between $1000-$2000/month. * Commute will add $300-$500; parking $500-$900 (plus car…

You are doing it wrong. Commute in manhattan (one of the cities Retric mentioned) is $81/month. http://www.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm#30day

Yep, also with 2 workers, that 5$ cup of coffee is 200$/month.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#84

Post by Xichekolas »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #77
Xichekolas wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to spin your head... I currently live on $14k a year. Granted, I'm 25 and live in a college town in the midwest. My share of the rent is $255/mo (live with g/f). I spend $115/mo commuting. My car is paid for. My high deductible insurance is $60/mo. I spend about $220/mo on groceries and another couple hundred eating out and entertaining myself. Of course I have no children. I'm in no way saying everyone should l…

I live on 12k a year in one of the richest counties in the nation. It's easy. You know that stuff you think you want? You don't actually want it, you want the feelings associated with buying and showing things off. Sit down sometime and take stock of the things you actually use and derive enjoyment from on a daily basis and you'll be sitting there with a very tiny and cheap list. This is easier now than it used to be…

Yeah, living in a hurricane prone area last fall made me examine my 'list' as you call it. I thought to myself: "If my apartment were obliterated and I could only take what would fit in my car (an Aveo), what would it be?"

In the end my list was: My girlfriend, my cat, a week of clothes, my computer, my magic cards, and a couple books.

All the rest of it is just stuff that takes up space.

Once you realize what really matters, you start to question purchases. For a while I thought I really wanted to start a DVD collection, but then I realized it wouldn't be something I'd save from a burning building, so what was the point in having it? Even if the cost of the DVD is only about what two movie tickets cost, at least you don't have to store the movie tickets.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#85

Post by parenthesis »

swombat wrote: post #34
edw519 wrote: post #30

You had me right up until "bachelor's degree in history".

To be perfectly honest, I don't see why that should matter. Studying history is no less honourable than studying physics. We need both in our world. A historian obviously isn't going to be making lots of money later in life, but that doesn't make them worthless. A good education system should allow historians to come out of poor backgrounds too, not force everyone int apparently productive degrees. Hard sciences aren…

As I see it, the big difference between 'softer' (history, literature, philosophy, ...) and 'harder' (math, physics, ...) subjects is that, as an undergrad, you can 'get by' in softer subjects on very little work, especially if you are reasonably intelligent, whereas in harder subjects if you're not working to at least a certain level, you will do really badly.

However, to be a great historian is no less a task that to be a great physicist. Doing anything well is just as difficult as doing anything else well.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#86

Post by apsec112 »

tptacek wrote: post #50
acgourley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's a lot of money, but it also leaves them with a lot of money left every month. I don't know exactly what your net income in CA on 200k is (and if they filed jointly, etc), but they should take home at least 10k a month. They still have 7k a month to live on. I don't see the problem.

Assume they're living in a house and they have one child. Then: $2800 for loans. $3500 for mortage and escrow. $1300 for child care (both work). $1000 for food and day-to-day living expenses. $1000 for utilities, Internet, services and recurring expenses --- parking, commute, health care copay and (with most employers) dependent coverage, etc. I get $9600. Survivable? Of course. You can clearly survive in America wit…

This is silly. $200K/year minus $50K/year for loan payments ($34K/year + tax) is $150K/year. The median household income in the US is $50K/year (2007). $150K is 94th percentile; these people are not only not scraping by, but are doing better than 94% of Americans even after debt.

Re: The Great College Hoax

#87

Post by jmtame »

i'm more worried about the other students who come in and think just because they paid a few of their friends to cheat on tests and they got a "degree" it is somehow an entitlement to a life of a high-salary job. most students actually go in with that mindset. "i'll cheat on the tests, i'll slack off, and get the degree. then i'm deserving of a job, because that's what everyone says to do."

Re: The Great College Hoax

#88

Post by lallysingh »

Wow, those numbers really, really suck.

I didn't go to an Ivy, I went to state tech school. My loans were at 4.5% (!) when I started, and the last one was ~7.5%. My initial tuition was $2500/sem, ended at $4500.

Note, that's over an 11 year period, covering bachelor's-PhD. Folks covered undergrad, and I did a lot of research work to cover many semesters of graduate school. My loans are somewhere around $50k total. Each semester's loan usually left me with tuition covered and $5k of spending money.

There are some things about not going to MIT/CMU I'll always feel like I've missed. But there is the other side of the coin :-)

Re: The Great College Hoax

#89

Post by wallflower »

tptacek wrote: post #50
acgourley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's a lot of money, but it also leaves them with a lot of money left every month. I don't know exactly what your net income in CA on 200k is (and if they filed jointly, etc), but they should take home at least 10k a month. They still have 7k a month to live on. I don't see the problem.

Assume they're living in a house and they have one child. Then: $2800 for loans. $3500 for mortage and escrow. $1300 for child care (both work). $1000 for food and day-to-day living expenses. $1000 for utilities, Internet, services and recurring expenses --- parking, commute, health care copay and (with most employers) dependent coverage, etc. I get $9600. Survivable? Of course. You can clearly survive in America wit…

Tom Wolfe's "Bonfire of the Vanities" (Going broke on a million a year), p.137

"One breath of scandal, and not only would the Giscard scheme collapse but his very career would be finished! And what would he do then? I’m already going broke on a million a year!

The appalling figures came popping up into his brain. Last year his income had been $980,000. But he had to pay out $21,000 a month for the $1.8 million loan he had to take out to buy the apartment…

Of the $560,000 remaining of his income last year, $44,400 was required for the apartment’s monthly maintenance fee… $18,000 for heat, utilities, insurance and repairs, $6,000 for lawn and hedge cutting, $8,000 for taxes. Entertaining at home and in restaurants had come to $37,000. This was a modest sum compared to what other people spent."

Another perspective:

UrbanBaby is an anonymous message board frequented by some typical New York UES/UWS mothers. Here they talk about not being afford private school on $400k/yr

DC = dear child, DH = dear husband

http://www.urbanbaby.com/talk/posts/50368448

Re: The Great College Hoax

#90

Post by light3 »

Retric wrote: post #83
yummyfajitas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are doing it wrong. Commute in manhattan (one of the cities Retric mentioned) is $81/month. http://www.mta.info/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm#30day

Yep, also with 2 workers, that 5$ cup of coffee is 200$/month.

$5 thats roughly how much I pay for lunch
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