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Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

nytimes.com

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Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#11

Post by gioele »

gagabity wrote: post #8

This story actually seems to be more complex than most western media is reporting it, apparently the scientists issued false "everything is ok" messages possibly for political reasons, against what their data actually showed. At least that's what I picked up from the Reddit discussion.

From my long comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4687151

> The minutes of the 31 March meeting

Before that meeting, some of the scientists have been "used" by various politicians and high-level civil servant in their public speeches and interviews with the media. There are records of the director of the nation-wide emergency task-force being being interviewed and saying things like "After these afternoon quakes there is nothing to be feared, I can assure you. My fellow colleague and quake researcher can tell you the same", and one of the convicted scientists cues in "Sure, there is nothing to be feared. Indeed, these small earthquakes have released a lot of energy, making a big earthquake impossible". _Impossible_. That is not correct scientific communication, that is being the wingman of a politician being interviewed by national TV.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#12

Post by smutticus »

jasonlingx wrote: post #6

So now every scientist is just going to sound the alarm every time. How does that help anything?

Or more likely every scientist is going to be extremely cautious and cover their ass when making public statements. That's a lot different than sounding the alarm every time. I get the feeling that if these scientists had not been so absolute in their vision of safety they would not have been convicted.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#14

Post by dbarefoot »

gagabity wrote: post #8

This story actually seems to be more complex than most western media is reporting it, apparently the scientists issued false "everything is ok" messages possibly for political reasons, against what their data actually showed. At least that's what I picked up from the Reddit discussion.

Corruption in Italy? I can't imagine.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#15

Post by TallGuyShort »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #9
gagabity wrote: post #8

This story actually seems to be more complex than most western media is reporting it, apparently the scientists issued false "everything is ok" messages possibly for political reasons, against what their data actually showed. At least that's what I picked up from the Reddit discussion.

You're right, they held a big conference to reassure people that everything is OK and they should remain in their houses. One week later the big one came and some of those who listened to the scientists died. Not as outrageous as what the media is reporting, but probably more interesting from the point of view of a scientist's responsibility.

In fairness to the scientists, you know as well as I do that they could have stated the risk of a big earthquake and nobody would have listened. It happens in high-risk disaster areas all the time. Sure, they should be held accountable for making false statements for political or economic gain, but saying "those who listened to the scientists died" isn't fair.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#16

Post by viraptor »

smutticus wrote: post #12
jasonlingx wrote: post #6

So now every scientist is just going to sound the alarm every time. How does that help anything?

Or more likely every scientist is going to be extremely cautious and cover their ass when making public statements. That's a lot different than sounding the alarm every time. I get the feeling that if these scientists had not been so absolute in their vision of safety they would not have been convicted.

If covering ass means saying something like "I predict <5% change of X happening" instead of saying it's not going to happen... why not. Maybe publishing more raw data for others instead of just a 2-word summary would be a good solution in general.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#19

Post by dromidas »

wilhow wrote: post #17

So when do we start slapping lawsuits on failing to predict floods and hurricanes?

Why stop there? We just have to look around and find someone knowledgeable about something that just happened and is bad. Then you can sue them for not reporting that it was going to happen.

I think I'm going to promptly forget everything I know about computers before I get sued by a local store for not warning them that a virus is in the wild.

Re: Italy Orders Jail Terms for 7 Who Didn’t Warn of Deadly Earthquake

#20

Post by openmosix »

callmeed wrote: post #2

I recall hearing of Italy having a poor legal/justice system. Can anyone comment on this verdict as it relates to Italy? Would these scientists be found guilty in Germany, Spain, Greece, etc.?

Isn't US the nation where companies get sued because coffee is too hot?
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