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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

frommers.com

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that you can opt out of TSA's facial recognition https://www.ajl.org/campaigns/fly

And exactly what good does that do? The government already has your face tied to your ID and knows you’re flying

And my fingerprints too, but I don't have to be a willing participant.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be more precise. The TSA has created extra work for themselves, and are charging us for it, whether it's legally required or not (because they pretend that it is).

Sure. But it's not "pretend". It's genuine regulatory policy they've created because they believe it's necessary for security, and this has been a decades-long project. The article is arguing they don't ultimately have the legal authority to make that regulatory policy. Maybe that'll go to court and be tested, maybe they'll win and maybe they'll lose. If they lose, maybe Congress will pass explicit legislative author…

I mean I could hire someone to continuously dig and refill the a hole in the ground. That would certainly be them doing a thing, but it would also definitely be fake work. There's been plenty of rhetoric thrown around but no real evidence has been produced that suggests the TSA isn't engaging in a bit of circular digging at the taxpayer's expense with this.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#153
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not see how an organization discouraging the use of something inefficient benefits as a whole? Thats why cashless businesses exist, why you pay more for things that involve human attention instead of automated online solutions etc.

Who does it benefit? Not me. Maybe it benefits Mastercard and Visa.

Yes it benefits the consumer through lower prices, and in the case of cashless specifically, less tax fraud, etc

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#154
post #104

I once told TSA this: "I lost my Driver's License, and the state won't issue another for a month maybe. I understand there's an extra screening pat-down." Before entering the porno scanners I put everything in my pockets on the scanner belt, and they didn't bother to pat me down. YMMV.

"YMMV"

I've had my testicles squeezed, fondled, but thankfully, mostly avoided.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#155

Frankly, the entire agency is unconstitutional. From the fact that they basically exist under a general warrant issued by the supreme court (although they invented a new catagory, "administrative search", which doesn't fundamentally change what it is) to the restrictions on the right to assembly requires free travel as well, although the current legal underpinnings are "creative", the 10th admendment which grants all…

Inventing categories is what the court does. The Constitution is incredibly brief, and gives zero guidance on how to clarify conflicts. It has always been full of "common sense" exceptions, like criminalizing threats (despite the unqualified "freedom of speech" language) or probable cause (police can invade your house if they know you are committing a crime right now).

The sum total of these "common sense" exceptions, and the "legal reasoning" that extends them to the modern world, means that the document itself doesn't actually mean anything. Your rights, such as they are, consist of literally millions of pages of decisions, plus the oral tradition passed down in law schools.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#156
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...

It is, but I think that's a separate issue. There's no authorization, let alone a mandate, to prove identity to move about. The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane. It's not to track who is going where.

> The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane.

No, it is to make it safe for any reason, which goes beyond whether or not they brought box cutters.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#157
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who does it benefit? Not me. Maybe it benefits Mastercard and Visa.

Yes it benefits the consumer through lower prices, and in the case of cashless specifically, less tax fraud, etc

Most businesses near me offer lower prices to people paying with cash.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$45 x millions of people (some multiple times) = an incredibly consequential amount of money

It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID. In the context of airport security budgets, it's not that much. And it's used for hiring the additional staff required and putting together the identity verification systems they use.

> It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID

Those that did had to pay $30-$60 plus fees (actual cost differs by state) to get one and will have to pay that again and again each renewal. This is certainly making money somewhere for somebody and not at all about security

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#159

In the USA it is possible to fly without an ID?

EU technically doesn’t require government-issued ID to fly either. They often don’t check for ID at all, and in cases where they do, legally any card with your name and photo on it would work for this „identification“. EU generally doesn’t legally require you to carry ID - but they can and will hassle you more and more if you don’t.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#160
post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

> So it was never about security at all then, was it?

Never was.

I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again.

Then I realized I could even skip that.

Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the metal detector, swab my hands, and I'm done. I usually make it through before my bags.

Sometimes, a TSA moron asks "why not?" and I simply say "are you asking me to share my personal healthcare information out loud in front of a bunch of strangers? Are you a medical professional?" and they back down.

Other times, they've asked "can you raise them at least this high?" and kind of motion. I ask "are you asking me to potentially injure myself for your curiosity? are you going to pay for any injuries or pain I suffer?"

The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security.

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