Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

static.germantechjobs.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 71 posts

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#21

Post by trilogic »

Still no real data on the layoff % in the tech sector, respective to Devs or just in general.

Personally I noticed an exodus of Americans towards Europe. IT may as well be considered an intellectual immigration flux.

The critical point is that no one has the puta idea of how to use AI to create jobs, so to smooth and balance the shift/layoffs. Time to be creative on it or else we will see employees destroying the machines again like they did in the beginning of the industrial revolution followed by an economical depression.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#22

Post by NoiseBert69 »

j7ake wrote: post #20
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #2

I don't trust these numbers for Germany. Why? Have a look at all the Tarifunternehmen salaries. 80k-90k€ is pretty much a standard salary you can reach after 5 years (with maybe changing your position once within the same company). Feels like their dataset has significant sampling gap in some very big industries here.

It doesn’t matter honestly, 65k versus 80k after 42% tax on the extra 15k is about 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.

Reality is ~36-38% if you learn to spend money strategically so you can fill a proper tax return.

I never paid 42% my entire engineer life.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#24

Post by klooney »

NoiseBert69 wrote: post #22
j7ake wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter honestly, 65k versus 80k after 42% tax on the extra 15k is about 800 euros a month. Not qualitatively different.

Reality is ~36-38% if you learn to spend money strategically so you can fill a proper tax return. I never paid 42% my entire engineer life.

What are you doing, for the non-Germans? I'm wondering how onerous your tax optimization strategy is.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#25

Post by simfoo »

rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

Whenever I read those reports I can't help but wonder who they are actually asking. I'm definitely in a bubble working in Munich and either for US subsidiaries or at least close to them (automotive, ai, robotics, aerospace and others) - but it's a pretty big bubble because it's easily thousands of engineers within one or two hops. And we all make north of 100k€! No-one with more than 5-10 years of experience would accept an offer below 90k and I know a lot of folks that earn 150k+. The statistics always feel very low-balled

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#26

Post by NoiseBert69 »

klooney wrote: post #24
NoiseBert69 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality is ~36-38% if you learn to spend money strategically so you can fill a proper tax return. I never paid 42% my entire engineer life.

What are you doing, for the non-Germans? I'm wondering how onerous your tax optimization strategy is.

There are many tools available in Germany that support you doing your tax filings. They have endless questionnaires in (tax law free) easy language that guide you through all the taxing niches. They not only respect all rules regarding the laws but also the latest jurisprudence.

Like: If you have a lockable, separate office and work (almost) exclusively from home, you can basically deduct the entire room for tax purposes (rent + electricity + heating + insurance + etc).

That can make a huge chunk.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#27

Post by PurpleRamen »

This site looks so suspicious. The numbers are very wrong. I looked up two jobs they are listing, which had some very extraordinary wage shown. Both turned out to be wrong, by miles even. By which I mean, they show 80k/year, for a 1k/month paid training. Is this some vibe coded garbage?

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#28

Post by pbmonster »

nine_k wrote: post #13
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

What are some jobs that pay significantly more? Is it easier to be a factory worker? (I suppose factory workers cannot be let go as easily.) Does work in finance, or in medicine, or some other highly educated job pay materially more?

Yes, medicine pays better, median is around 100k but with significant back loading towards the second half of the career.

Finance can be (much) better, but feels like far fewer jobs, especially outside Frankfurt. I'm not sure finding a high paying finance jobs is easier than finding a software job at the German office of an American firm (which pay similarly well).

> I suppose factory workers cannot be let go as easily.

It's important to look at comparable companies. If you're a SE at a company with many factory workers, firing the SE is usually equally as difficult as firing the factory worker. They usually have the same protections and are in the same union. Software shops just tend to be smaller and those have lower job security.

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#29

Post by rednalexa »

simfoo wrote: post #25
rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

Whenever I read those reports I can't help but wonder who they are actually asking. I'm definitely in a bubble working in Munich and either for US subsidiaries or at least close to them (automotive, ai, robotics, aerospace and others) - but it's a pretty big bubble because it's easily thousands of engineers within one or two hops. And we all make north of 100k€! No-one with more than 5-10 years of experience would ac…

This experience is common in my circles even in the US as well as those I know in Europe. May be a bi-modal distribution where some industries are vastly underpaying while some industries are the opposite and paying well above the average. This seems to have happened in a lot of career spaces. The vast majority will be in the first group too, which is why sampling would get a result like the one in the survey?

Re: We asked 15k European devs about jobs, salaries, and AI [pdf]

#30

Post by blell »

rockyj wrote: post #3

Yeah, the numbers in Germany are not so rosy. If these numbers are true, we are looking at - - An "average" salary of around 65K / year - This after (an average of) 5-6 rounds of interviews - 6 months of "probation", with only 2 weeks of notice - And all after 4-6 years of degree/s and 4-5 years of experience (so around 10 years of investment) Then after taxation 65K annually means around 3500/month in pocket. Then w…

Don’t worry, the situation will drastically improve with the new plan of importing thousands of Indians into the EU.
Post reply on HN