Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. Please provide a list, no sarcasm. And please don’t put Hetzner on it, as it is not a cloud provider.
Ok, I'll bite. Why is it not a cloud provider? Most importantly, what is a cloud provider in your definition?
Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
291–300 of 729 posts
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#292Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#293This is not just a sovereignty/security/privacy issue. I genuinely believe that ditching Big Tech will produce genuinely better technology for consumers. Once the monopolists lose their network effect advantage, startups should be forced to adopt more interoperable protocols and foster healthier competition. Big Tech is a cancer, same as any other monopoly.
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life. Senior SWE salaries I'm finding in a quick google search in Spain are 80k eur. According to levels.fyi [1] Google (and presumably the other clouds) are paying 170k eur. The comparison isn't even "is 4x the salary better in the US?" it's "is 2x the salary better in t…
Again, by focusing solely on the salary you're missing the bigger picture. I know y'all are conditioned to just focusing on the salary, but there is so much more to life.
Unfortunately my landlord does not agree and wants his payment in actual money, and so do a lot of services we rely on to live.
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the size of state and bureaucratisation are the main issues, one wonders how China got so far :-)
In what sense is china bureaucratic when it comes to business?
I can't believe we're talking about China in the context of a Cloud sovereignty issue and this is even a question.
Having worked for these Cloud providers China has consistently used bureaucracy to exfiltrate Cloud technologies and to tip the scales of effectiveness of offerings through levers with China Telecom/Unicom. Analyzing the backbone, you could see it in real time.
China basically offsets its bureaucracy by doing the one thing Europe has not done so far in this space: overtly hurt foreign competitors. It doesn't matter how superior your offerings are if the end customers end up throttled creating a less desirable experience than the less-featured, stable domestic competitor.
Unfortunately - the elephant in the room is China got to where it was by being overtly adversarial with the US from the jump after 2010 which translated to a number of anti-competitive measures. The EU's in a spot because it's mostly responding to Trump and a poorly written US law. The US and EU are weird friends in that we could both exfiltrate each other's tech, patents, and industrial assets and move on with business but that's not actually what either side actually wants.
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#296Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#297I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…
My theory is that 80% of workloads on AWS/GCP/Azure are pure waste. They sell complexity-as-a-service. 80% of startups and enterprises could run on a single beefy baremetal server (or two). AWS/GCP/Azure are the result of hype bubbles and VC-funded waste culture, it's not necessary for Europe to recreate that to compete.
Thank you. The AWS spaghetti is a trap of unnecessary complexity for most cases. You'd be shocked how far you can scale with a few good baremetal servers running something like Rails and Postgres.
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. We used to live in a world converging toward maximal international trade, when in fact it was exploiting underdeveloped nations. As we progress globally, and as the development gap shrinks, we have noticed power dynamics which weren't well guarded against in the old way. So now what? How do w…
> Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. If anything, I'd say for other countries it's more urgent. If China embargoes deliveries of light bulbs to Europe, all the light bulbs already in place keep working. The pain would grow over time - giving a grace period, to ramp up local production. If America embargoes AWS, Google, Apple a…
I'm absolutely not an expert, but critical things for power and food production not to mention medical supplies and emergency equipment are also tied up pretty deeply in international trade.
The world would break pretty quickly if we all just stopped trading with each other.
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not everyone needs Web scale. As proven by Huawei, ingenuity can go a great way when friendships go sour.
So is your solution that Europe only creates small companies?
If this is in reference to the parent's mention of Hauwei (200,000 employees, ~$120 billion annual revenue), then I'm not sure we all share your idea of a small company
Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native
#300> This isn't just compliance theater; it's a straight‑up national economic security play. The woes of LLM contrasts… In all seriousness, the points made ring true not only for European companies and should make everyone consider the implications of the current situation, as dreary as they are.
Just as America would like to reduce its dependence on external production, so to do other countries want to reduce their own. We used to live in a world converging toward maximal international trade, when in fact it was exploiting underdeveloped nations. As we progress globally, and as the development gap shrinks, we have noticed power dynamics which weren't well guarded against in the old way. So now what? How do w…
It is risky to believe that the development gap alone makes for higher economic efficiency when manufacturing things in China. There are very real structural differences in how various industries are organized. Not least in terms of geography.
This is an aspect the west seems to have missed entirely as there are no attempts to learn from it or emulate it.
Everyone knows about Shenzhen. Not everyone knows that this is how every major manufacturing industry is clustered in China in various cities and regions.