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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

theregister.com

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#251

Post by cuu508 »

esskay wrote: post #191
the_real_cher wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres tons of good cloud providers in the EU.

Name some. Some that match those kinds of services mentioned that people need from AWS.

If you use AWS virtual machines https://european-alternatives.eu/category/vps-virtual-privat... (some of these also do managed load balancers, managed databases)

If you use AWS for object storage: https://european-alternatives.eu/category/object-storage-pro...

If you use SES: https://european-alternatives.eu/category/transactional-emai... (but hosting your own is also a viable option)

CDNs: https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cdn-content-delive...

There isn't any single provider that can match each and every AWS service. But for subsets of services there are options.

If there's a specific AWS service that you cannot get anywhere else but do absolutely need, that's vendor lock-in. Would it be fair to blame EU companies for your bad decisions?

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#252

Post by Juliate »

znnajdla wrote: post #239
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

My theory is that 80% of workloads on AWS/GCP/Azure are pure waste. They sell complexity-as-a-service. 80% of startups and enterprises could run on a single beefy baremetal server (or two). AWS/GCP/Azure are the result of hype bubbles and VC-funded waste culture, it's not necessary for Europe to recreate that to compete.

And most (not all) of these workloads are custom software that try to fully reproduce/plumb functionalities that already mostly exist in Unix tools, with worse performance, instead of using/plugging into them.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#253

Post by iLoveOncall »

deaux wrote: post #156
iLoveOncall wrote: post #18

Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. If you work for GCP or AWS in Europe, you'll easily get twice as much income as if you do the exact same job for Hetzner or OVH. You can't build equivalents to GCP and AWS without paying the same. I work for a FAANG right now in Europe and I wouldn't consider even a single second any European cloud provider…

There's always money to be made from being a traitor. Maybe next time Yandex Cloud or Aramco Cloud offers you 50% more and off you go. And yes, I've walked the talk, so I can say this.

Laughable hyperbole.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#254

Post by dumbfounder »

pjmlp wrote: post #221
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

Not everyone needs Web scale. As proven by Huawei, ingenuity can go a great way when friendships go sour.

So is your solution that Europe only creates small companies?

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#255

Post by ExoticPearTree »

armcat wrote: post #215
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer That's true right now, yes. But things are changing rapidly, e.g. there is evroc [1], Mimer [2] and others are popping up too. it took Google about 15 years of pouring money into Google Docs to be almost as good as the MS offering I know, and I'm not saying that EU will do any different, but this is not necessarily an absolute gold-standard be…

> I know, and I'm not saying that EU will do any different, but this is not necessarily an absolute gold-standard benchmark

My point was that even with Google's money, they're still not on par with MS even if the Office files format has been standardized for a number of years. And if you extrapolate that to any other technology, you will find out very fast that it is very expensive to come up with a replacement solution that will actually be embraced by potential customers.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#256

Post by varispeed »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

online.net is quite close.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#257

Post by Nextgrid »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

> no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer

I guess we must be living on different planets. I have recently deployed a Django application for a client of mine on Scaleway (due to an existing partnership we preferred using them over other infrastructure). Scaleway right now (you can signup and check it out) offers:

* container registry - build an push your containers there

* ECS/Fargate equivalent - tell it to run N instances of your aforementioned container

* Managed Postgres & Redis with failover/replication

* VPC - put your managed DBs and containers there so they can talk over a private network

* S3-compatible object storage

What more do you need exactly? That's essentially all I would use from the incumbent cloud providers anyway.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#258

Post by Juliate »

crazygringo wrote: post #235
2III7 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we start creating well optimized software again that doesn't need ridiculous amounts of compute and money?

If your customers want features that require compute and money, and your competitor offers them, then you don't really have a choice if you want to stay in business.

That's up to you (and the customers) to understand that the location where the compute/data is happening is as important a criteria to consider. As it is today.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#259

Post by iso1631 »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

Yes, some of us have been sighing as companies lock themselves into aws etc.

We now have a generation of people who have no idea how to use computers, just how to operate aws.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#260

Post by ExoticPearTree »

generic92034 wrote: post #224
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #169

I like it how everyone says that, but there is no european cloud operator able to offer what AWS/GCP/Azure offer. And if you are a start-up and you want to grow, the situation is even more dire. And without a few hundreds of billions of EUR invested _today_ there will still be at least a decade until basic infrastructure will be somewhat on par with current day hyperscalers from the US. And Office suite wise, it took…

> There’s a chance that the current situation will start to resolve itself in 3 years and we go back to normal, however that might look. There is almost no chance for that, as lost trust does not return instantly.

In politics things work differently: you have people that "spat on each other" today and tomorrow they'll act like they are brothers and the spitting never happened.
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