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CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

physicsworld.com

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Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#21

Post by onetokeoverthe »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #20
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics research at CERN, the Web was born there, cloud was previously known as Grid Computing at CERN, Three examples of how humanity would not be as we know it today without CERN. As Alumni, there are many other changes that trace back to CERN. We don't sit only on the H1 beer garden and go skiing.

> Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics Are you speaking about proton therapy? I don’t think there’s any evidence that works better than alternatives

[dead]

Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#22

Post by T-A »

Fh_ wrote: post #2

These projects are extremely expensive and the findings can alter humanity itself. That's why private donors sounds a bit sketchy

> can alter humanity

or at least keep some of it warm:

https://home.cern/news/news/cern/heating-homes-worlds-larges...

Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#23

Post by sandworm101 »

sampo wrote: post #18
Fh_ wrote: post #2

These projects are extremely expensive and the findings can alter humanity itself. That's why private donors sounds a bit sketchy

> findings can alter humanity itself Higgs boson was predicted in theory in 1964, and found in LHC in CERN in 2012-2013. With this, all elementary particles in the standard model of particle physics have been found. From the 1970s to 2010s, physicists believed in a theory called supersymmetry, which predicted supersymmetric partner particles for the known elementary particles. But these should have been already found…

A collider produces far more than new particles or explanations. They produce papers and phds. In effect, thier primary goal is to produce stem careers. The new particles are just the public announcements. The collider doesnt even need to be functional. Much/most of the work occures before first light, before anyone turns it on. The design of the ring and its innumerable detectors and subsystems takes decades. So a great many people want the next collider to be funded regardless of its potential for scientific discovery.

The same discussion can happen re the ISS. Its primary purpose was not science. It existed to give shuttle a parking spot, to keep the US manned space program ticking along and to keep a thousand russian rocket people from going to work for rando countries. The ISS will soon end. Are we going to put up a new one? A place to park starliner and dragon? Or are we going to shut down low earth orbit spaceflight? The decision will not turn on the potential for new science, rather it will be about supporting and maintaining a flagship industry.

Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#24

Post by mike-the-mikado »

As someone who supports pure science research, I would be interested to understand if any of the discoveries of CERN (and related projects) in the last 50 years (say) have proved to have practical application.

(Specifically, "discoveries", not technology developed in support of the research)

Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#27

Post by SecretDreams »

sandworm101 wrote: post #23
sampo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> findings can alter humanity itself Higgs boson was predicted in theory in 1964, and found in LHC in CERN in 2012-2013. With this, all elementary particles in the standard model of particle physics have been found. From the 1970s to 2010s, physicists believed in a theory called supersymmetry, which predicted supersymmetric partner particles for the known elementary particles. But these should have been already found…

A collider produces far more than new particles or explanations. They produce papers and phds. In effect, thier primary goal is to produce stem careers. The new particles are just the public announcements. The collider doesnt even need to be functional. Much/most of the work occures before first light, before anyone turns it on. The design of the ring and its innumerable detectors and subsystems takes decades. So a g…

> thousand russian rocket people from going to work for bad people.

Just like for the Germans before!

I agree with you that it is an educational tool, but if that's all it is, there are cheaper ways to educate that might also have a higher likelihood for scientific discoveries. To build a new collider, we should have some things we're trying to do/find.

Re: CERN accepts $1B in private cash towards Future Circular Collider

#29

Post by pjmlp »

bonsai_spool wrote: post #20
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics research at CERN, the Web was born there, cloud was previously known as Grid Computing at CERN, Three examples of how humanity would not be as we know it today without CERN. As Alumni, there are many other changes that trace back to CERN. We don't sit only on the H1 beer garden and go skiing.

> Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics Are you speaking about proton therapy? I don’t think there’s any evidence that works better than alternatives

What matters is that exists, and is another possibility for treatments.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4724719/

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