Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 729 posts

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#91

Post by 9dev »

bambax wrote: post #54
adrianN wrote: post #2

I kind of share the opinion of the FSF Europe that it is less important where software comes from compared to whether it’s libre, but for cloud hardware I really hope that we manage to create competitive European offerings. Maybe we’re lucky and this European initiative will produce more than five Fraunhofer institutes and a gift to SAP.

We already have excellent cloud providers in Europe. But most importantly, most businesses using the cloud would be better off with simple on-prem solutions. So much cheaper to operate and control.

> So much cheaper to operate and control.

Until you factor in the salaries of the new employees you have to hire now, the cost of that hiring process, the compliance and security implications of operating servers on your premises, the ongoing maintenance of the software and operating systems, the new infrastructure to maintain, including but not limited to backup power supply and overall redundancy, the need to manage the lifecycle of the new hard- and software, the documentation for all of this… I could go on for a while.

It's not like these cloud solutions are just solving laziness.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#92

Post by ada0000 »

stefanfisk wrote: post #59
ada0000 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the size of state and bureaucratisation are the main issues, one wonders how China got so far :-)

In what sense is china bureaucratic when it comes to business?

Tax breaks, operations of state owned industry, other incentives etc are guided by five year plans implemented by a party bureaucracy.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#93

Post by tryauuum »

atmosx wrote: post #38
abc123abc123 wrote: post #23

This already happened. Hetzner, OVH, and countless other local cloud companies exist. It is only the path of least resistancd and market inertia, that stops companies from switching. I run on Hetzner and am saving big bucks compared to the ridiculously high priced AWS.

Comparing EU cloud providers to AWS is like comparing a 1963 Zastava to 2025 high end BYD because both of them are cars and can drive from point A to point B.

when you compare IT stuff to cars, the discussion pivots to discussing cars, please think twice before using any analogies / comparisons with the physical world

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#94

Post by mgh95 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #34
iLoveOncall wrote: post #18

Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. If you work for GCP or AWS in Europe, you'll easily get twice as much income as if you do the exact same job for Hetzner or OVH. You can't build equivalents to GCP and AWS without paying the same. I work for a FAANG right now in Europe and I wouldn't consider even a single second any European cloud provider…

> Europe will never have competitive offerings until they pay their employees the equivalent of what FAANGs pay. Stop focusing on the absolute number of "$/year", and things will make more sense. Seemingly you'll be able to live a more lavish life in Spain given 1/4 of the salary compared to FAANG, yet your life is better and you can afford more. Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost wil…

> Higher salaries aren't always better, especially when you're almost willfully ignoring more important things like purchasing power and quality of life.

Senior SWE salaries I'm finding in a quick google search in Spain are 80k eur. According to levels.fyi [1] Google (and presumably the other clouds) are paying 170k eur. The comparison isn't even "is 4x the salary better in the US?" it's "is 2x the salary better in the same place?" which is obviously yes.

[1] https://www.levels.fyi/companies/google/salaries/software-en...

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#95

Post by raincole »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

I mean, if after three years all we got is Mistral, it's obvious that EU is out of the current round of AI race.

It might even be a positive thing. If the AI 'bubble' bursts they might end up saving tons of money and can buy idle GPUs at a discount.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#96

Post by jfengel »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #66
nullsanity wrote: post #33

I think reductionist opinions about the "Free market" and price competition being the only factor are naive. Culture and trust are major components of a project, and cultural sensibilities and development culture can be a part of procurement decisions. I worked for a company that chose Tresorit over any other option because it gave them Data Sovereignty, E2E encryption, and most important, it was not American. There…

We are a little misled, on purpose, with the term "sovereignty", though. For instance, if you are a French entity then sovereignty means your data stay in France. Moving things to de facto EU control is the opposite of sovereignty. I think Chomsky would have a lot to say about this and the broad manufacturing of consent taking place across Europe.

And for a lot of cases, that's ok. The world is a connected place, and it's more economically efficient for that. You work best when you trust your friends. You balance self reliance, according to your best judgment.

It's sure worrying to watch a good friend become an enemy. But you won't fix that by swearing off friends entirely.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#97

Post by closewith »

stevesimmons wrote: post #83
hartator wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contradictory regulations is one of the symptoms of overregulation. I.e., complying to GDPR means you can’t comply to cybersecurity laws. US has less of those.

How exactly does GDPR prevent you from complying with cybersecurity laws? For instance, one of GDPR's 6 lawful bases for processing data is in order to comply with legal obligations. If you're going to make strong claims like that, the onus really is on you to give specific examples.

I wonder is the GP is referring to the CLOUD Act, as it is true that US companies cannot be compliant with both the GDPR and the CLOUD Act, but it doesn't weaken the case for European tech sovereignty.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#98

Post by margorczynski »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

Well it is like Thiel said in a recent interview - European companies and investors are very risk-averse and will never be a vanguard like the ones in the US.

You'll never get here that kind of cash for any risky project, it usually is low risk + low margin.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#99

Post by alibarber »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #47

Can Europe build AI datacenters though? Europe has no wafer production and no companies that produce GPUs. That means it is dependent on Taiwan for wafers and the USA for GPU design. Then there is the question wether there is a will to invest. Gemini gives me this list of publicly traded companies in the US and what they invested in AI infrastructure in 2025: Amazon: $100B Alphabet: $90B Microsoft: $80B Meta: $70B Te…

How much of the stuff that is under control of the US cloud companies has any need for being in an ‘AI’ datacentre?

Does a store of healthcare records need AI? The state portal for renewing passports? The tax administration?

I seemed to be able to use all of these things online before the latest boom in AI came along.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#100

Post by _2d30 »

ada0000 wrote: post #44
embedding-shape wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> set the right free market conditions for real competition to happen Just as a curiosity, what exactly are those "right free market conditions" and where have those been successfully implemented before? Because I think most of us (Europeans) are desperately trying to avoid replicating the American experiment, so if that's the "right free market conditions" I think we're trying to avoid those on purpose. But maybe yo…

If the size of state and bureaucratisation are the main issues, one wonders how China got so far :-)

No one wonders that if they have any actual knowledge. Chinese government spending as a % of GDP is much less than say France. :-)

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/...

Bureaucratisation in the realm of business is much smaller in most relevant ways for most enterprises in China as well.

Post reply on HN