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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#361

Post by bandrami »

trhway wrote: post #323
riffraff wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you expect the demand for Tesla's robotaxis to be high? I don't see it.

demand for any robotaxis will be high. Just look at the number of Uber drivers whom the robotaxis will replace. Plus leased robotaxis or personal/reserved ones - whatever shape it'd take replacing at least some percentage of personal cars. There is only a "small" issue - to make those robotaxis, i.e. the self-driving system for them. Almost 20 years in, Google/Waymo is way ahead of everybody and is still not there ye…

That means a lot more capex though (as it is drivers bring their own cars) and I'm not sure how much enthusiasm there is for more of that right now

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#362

Post by laughing_man »

littlestymaar wrote: post #309
laughing_man wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk's goal all along was to get away from boutique production. He wants to sell millions of cheaper cars, not thousands of cars for wealthy people. Not sure it's going to work out. Without some big jumps in battery tech, EVs are going to be difficult to sell without subsidies.

> He wants to sell millions of cheaper cars, not thousands of cars for wealthy people. Why hasn't the cheap car been designed yet then?

The Model 3 is pretty cheap for an EV. The average car in the US is over $50k now, so it's competitive on price.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#363

Post by BenFranklin100 »

rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

That about sums it up.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#364

Post by dddgghhbbfblk »

CursedSilicon wrote: post #339
JasonBorne wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it will be high. Transit is a huge market. They would just need a small share of Uber, lyft, regular taxis, public transit.

Private taxis don't compete with public transit. They operate in completely different spheres

As a blanket statement that's not true with NYC being the most obvious (but not the only) counterexample.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#365

Post by tonyedgecombe »

cschmatzler wrote: post #351
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

I agree that this decision is insane and the whole Optimus/xAI bullshit is tiring, especially with the shareholders actually voting against the xAI investment, but you should try today's FSD. It's genuinely good and shouldn't be discarded wholesale because the guy sucks.

I'm not sure it is a bad decision given:

"Tesla’s far more popular models are the 3 and Y, which accounted for 97% of the company’s 1.59 million deliveries last year."

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#366

Post by rswail »

cschmatzler wrote: post #351
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

I agree that this decision is insane and the whole Optimus/xAI bullshit is tiring, especially with the shareholders actually voting against the xAI investment, but you should try today's FSD. It's genuinely good and shouldn't be discarded wholesale because the guy sucks.

The problem is not how well Tesla's FSD works, compared to other FSD from other manufacturers.

The problem is that Musk has been promising it for almost 10 years and it is still not sufficiently stable to be rolled out and relied upon by car owners.

FSD is only actually "ready" in terms of the whole "don't need to own a car for personal transport" when there can be passengers and no driver.

When Mom can dispatch the family car to pick up the kids from school.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#367

Post by protastus »

apparent wrote: post #359

Interesting that they're cutting S/X but keeping the Cybertruck. Whatever metric they're using (revenue, profit, units, etc.) that led them to cut the S/X would surely have similar numbers for the Cybertruck, if not worse.

The metric for the Cybertruck is the impact to Elon's ego. Nothing about this project is rational.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#368

Post by trhway »

bandrami wrote: post #361
trhway wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

demand for any robotaxis will be high. Just look at the number of Uber drivers whom the robotaxis will replace. Plus leased robotaxis or personal/reserved ones - whatever shape it'd take replacing at least some percentage of personal cars. There is only a "small" issue - to make those robotaxis, i.e. the self-driving system for them. Almost 20 years in, Google/Waymo is way ahead of everybody and is still not there ye…

That means a lot more capex though (as it is drivers bring their own cars) and I'm not sure how much enthusiasm there is for more of that right now

Nothing prevents the drivers to long-term lease a robocar like a personal vehicle and send it to work for Uber during the time when they don't need it.

Currently an Uber driver can drive at any given moment only one car for Uber. With robocars, a driver can invest in 2, 3 or more robocars and send them to work for Uber. Similar to how people buy multiple properties to rent out on AirBnB.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#369

Post by rswail »

lnsru wrote: post #355
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

The gamble with Cybertruck failed. It’s common sense, that such a vehicle will fail. The successful cars are made for masses and not for niche buyers. Common sense product could be something smaller than Model 3 for Europe and this car would eat Chinese for lunch. Expensive experiment failed, it’s time for consequences. Does Tesla have resources for another car experiment? Will it stay a car company?.. Or it will be…

BYD already have the Atto 1 (sub AUD30K here) as do other EV manufacturers (eg Nissan Leaf).

Tesla could stop spending money on bullshit like the Cybertruck and spend it on vehicles that people actually need/want.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#370

Post by qingcharles »

darksaints wrote: post #357
rswail wrote: post #334

So he milked Tesla for another $2B to subsidize xAI, has dropped the models to 2 (3 and Y), revenue is down, growth is negative, BYD is eating Tesla for lunch, followed by the other CN and KR vehicle companies. He doesn't have FSD, camera only navigation without sensor fusion with LIDAR will fail, the only thing keeping Tesla where it is is the bullshit dispersal field that surrounds Musk.

Forgot that the cybertruck was a sales flop and quality joke, and that the Tesla Semi is now the elephant in the room.

But... the Roadster!
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