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Amazon cuts 16k jobs

reuters.com

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Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#691

Post by ChoGGi »

chrysoprace wrote: post #574
mrtksn wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH the last 20-30 years was exactly like that but computers were eliminating other peoples jobs for really good profits for the investors and really good salaries for the workers doing the elimination. Before that people were eliminating blue colar workers with highly productive machines and industrial robots. I don't see how eliminating your co-workers is any different. Software ate the world and now AI will eat th…

There might be a time when software developers become obsolete, and I don't pretend to know the future, but if today's models are anything to go by then it won't happen any time soon. At the end of the day, there'll still be a need for highly skilled technical experts, whatever that job looks like.

I'll be curious to see how the next generation of highly skilled technical experts will be raised.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#692

Post by chrysoprace »

geodel wrote: post #602
chrysoprace wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be a time when software developers become obsolete, and I don't pretend to know the future, but if today's models are anything to go by then it won't happen any time soon. At the end of the day, there'll still be a need for highly skilled technical experts, whatever that job looks like.

> At the end of the day, there'll still be a need for highly skilled technical experts, whatever that job looks like. Well, this is kind of obvious right. Highly skilled people of next generation will do fine. The point is millions of highly skilled successful people of today could soon be below average category, jobless and can be called clueless, stuck in old ways who didn't simply see what is happening in the worl…

In my experience, many highly experienced professionals are already below average. That's not to say they don't work hard, but if their solutions are on par or worse than what an LLM can produce, then they might see themselves out of a job if the LLM can work harder.

As another commenter said, we'll likely see a big change on the junior end, which will affect the more experienced hire pool as time goes on.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#693

Post by kburman »

pm90 wrote: post #681
kburman wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the fear, but look at it from the investor's perspective. The US market is tapped out, Amazon is already everywhere it can be. Amazon isn't expanding in India out of love for the country or a desire to see it grow. They are doing it because Wall Street demands infinite growth every single year. Amazon India went from zero to a market leader in a decade not because of charity, but because that is where the new m…

They can capture the market without moving the workforce there. Meta/Instagram/WA have dominated Indian market for a decade now. It seems like this is pure labor arbitrage. Growth is gone so the only way to increase profits is by cutting costs, with labor force being the top line item.

You are describing a colonial model, extract all the wealth while investing nothing in the local economy. That era is over.

If anything, Meta is the anomaly, not the role model. They should be required to invest more given their dominance, rather than being praised for extracting maximum value with minimum local footprint. Regulators will likely close that gap eventually.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#694

Post by yieldcrv »

shartshooter wrote: post #144

This summer I went camping and at the campground next to me was a middle manager at Amazon. I’ve been out of the workforce for about a year, so I asked him how much of an impact AI was having in his role. He told me that he had worked to develop a tool that would replace effectively all of the middle management function that he was responsible for: gathering information from folks below him, distilling it down and re…

I'm in a well funded somewhat greenfield org - not a startup - we use mcp servers of that specific ticket tracking system within the coding tools to handle ticket creation, assignment, tracking, status, completion, updated by what code is being hit. mostly inheriting existing workflows like git comments, pull requests, tickets referenced in those already, just AI writes those commit messages and PR comments too. reports about all of that are made by AI as well to the stakeholder that needs to see that distilled in their language.

We won't be hiring middle management, no product managers, no engineering managers, VPs

The only aspect we don't have solved is a buffer between sales/execs and engineers, but all other functions are automated away alongside other AI assisted coding that there actually is bandwidth for the schizophrenic ideas. Things that used to be tech debt and not prioritized by engineers without management suddenly are all solved, AI makes the cleanest REST API's I've ever seen, obscure verbs properly implemented immediately. Test cases all done.

It's working really well and the friction with non technical PMs and hierarchies is gone

its a 1 liner to add relevant mcp servers to Claude Code, and every ticket tracker already has an mcp server out

for triaging between UX designers, we also just don't. we use an mcp server for UX, I can point playwright - which is usually used for testing your own site - at a competitor's website and feed all the UX information and implementation into Claude Code to promote the synthesis of an extremely advanced and already engaging design pattern into the project

at this point, I would say its a lack of competence to manage a software project or org, any other way. Amazon's deep cuts are a shot across the bow to others that know they need to "do the needful", and will be watched closely

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#695

Post by tills13 »

levocardia wrote: post #547
dzonga wrote: post #375

Insightful Comment from X - https://xcancel.com/PlumbNick/status/2016500347053773198?s=2... I was an L7, I led global AI enablement. I built systems executives depended on, moved wherever the company needed me and fixed problems that had been sitting untouched because no one else could untangle them. And I was still cut. Here’s the part we’re all supposed to politely ignore: in the U.S. right now, experience isn’t an…

What's especially funny is that the post reads exactly like it was written by an AI.

> in the U.S. right now, experience isn’t an asset, it’s a liability

this is a HUGE red flag for this comment being written be AI. Before 2025, nobody talked like this.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#696

Post by nyantaro1 »

BigHatLogan wrote: post #608
Shocka1 wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this is one of the better takes in this thread. I'm a big fan of Hazlitt's book Economics in One Lesson, which gives a very condensed version of some economic ideas - one of them being automation, with really good examples in the past of labor saving machines like the printing press being created. When I first read it a decade ago I didn't think my profession might be like the printing press, but it's definitely…

What is your repurposing plan, if you don't mind my asking? I am trying to think of alternatives too, but it's quite stressful.

same here

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#697

Post by tills13 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #509
still-learning wrote: post #11

I wonder what kind of unprecedented economic growth we'd be seeing right now if we kept with the status quo rather than imposing tariffs and scaring off foreign investors.

The US was setting itself for quite a recovery in 2024... and for a class war too, so IDK what would get there first.

The needle has swung so far in the opposite direction that a class war is back on the menu.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#698

Post by ganoushoreilly »

jdmg94 wrote: post #581
Aurornis wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He told me that he had worked to develop a tool that would replace effectively all of the middle management function that he was responsible for: gathering information from folks below him, distilling it down and reporting that to people above him. Any manager whose job was this simple was on borrowed time anyway. I think the person was feeding you a story around the campfire to impress you. Real management work do…

you would be amazed at the amount of middle managers who keep failing upwards in organizations like Amazon

Happens in the Govt too. I think it's pretty common that if you can "sell a story" you're in a better spot than simply doing well at the job.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#699

Post by johnnyanmac »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #668
johnnyanmac wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really think that companies are moving out of country because "there's not enough talent", despite having some of the more relaxed tax codes and most talented universities here: well, sure. That would be hopeless. It also sounds like you're buying snake oil. They had decades to off shore, and they chose not to. I don't think Ai in the near term (<15 years) is going to change that dial much. If they do leave, t…

> If you really think that companies are moving out of country because "there's not enough talent", despite having some of the more relaxed tax codes and most talented universities here The US has a huge delta between its great universities and its mediocre ones. There are some smart and sharp kids everywhere in even the lowest ranked schools. But altogether the amount of people who can pass a code screen in the US i…

>The US has a huge delta between its great universities and its mediocre ones.

Like any other country, yes.

>But altogether the amount of people who can pass a code screen in the US is pretty low. If you ever interviewed people for a software position in a big tech firm, you'd realize this.

Compared to India? Or is it fine to lower standards of quality when you are paying an 8th of the cost and it turns out most people don't need to be from MIT to contribute?

That's perfectly fine and dandy. But that's not what H1Bs are for.

Re: Amazon cuts 16k jobs

#700

Post by chairmansteve »

rich_sasha wrote: post #407
didibus wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if you'd claim it's terrible, there's some explaining to do Here's the explaining: - Unemployment has increased. - Long-Term unemployment has increased. - Number of gig workers is at an all time high. - Layoffs have continued. - Personal household dept is at an all time high. - Polls show most people have financial anxiety and feel squeezed. - Inflation is not under control. - Buy now pay later usage is up as mu…

I'd say these are symptoms (and I'm not denying them) rather than causes. My point is that it's hard to find hard data that would say the economy is doing poorly. Even unemployment, which is your top line, seems... fine? I just don't understand where the squeeze is coming from. Either companies figured out how to do more with less people, or they started the cycle with too many people, or they don't know what they ar…

They are laying people off so they can spend the money on AI data centers.
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