I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist. • Hacker News Board

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#121

Post by ktizo » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 6:15 AM UTC

Jach wrote: post #119

ktizo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were a muslim girl getting discriminated against for wearing a hijab, I'd stop wearing the hijab. So you would, I guess, also suggest that Sikhs should stop wearing turbans, Jews should stop wearing a kippah, nuns should stop wearing habits, pagans should stop wearing pentangles, etc. Not only is your suggestion frankly both offensive and pretty idiotic, but the world it would lead to would have even more discri…

> So you would, I guess, also suggest that Sikhs should stop wearing turbans, Jews should stop wearing a kippah, nuns should stop wearing habits, pagans should stop wearing pentangles, etc. Only if said individuals of the group are uncomfortable with their experience of discrimination. Others have thicker skins and ignore it, and some don't face any discrimination at all. Some want to rebel against society like a tee…

So you are saying that if you are uncomfortable with your experience of discrimination then you should change your appearance to appease your persecutor?

Do you make this crap up yourself, or does it get sent to you through the mail as part of your subscription to Batshit Monthly?

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#122

Post by wpietri » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 7:09 AM UTC

Jach wrote: post #118

wpietri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible analogy. People aren't discriminating because they think hijabs are unfashionable. They're discriminating because they correctly interpret the hijab as a religious marker. Did you notice that your advice basically amounts to "do your best to look like a straight, white, middle-class Christian"? And that you are basically blaming the victim? Both strike me as terrible advice.

I am not blaming the victim, just offering a solution for the victim's discomfort. It is not equivalent to the type of victim-blaming usually done against raped women--precisely because what a woman wears isn't strongly correlated with whether she is raped or not, few decisions on her part could have helped her situation before or after, so she can't reasonably be blamed for failing to e.g. never leave the home. (And…

It is precisely equivalent to the kind of victim-blaming that goes on when women in short skirts are sexually harassed or groped, which is indeed correlated with what they wear.

If somebody is treated poorly for being who they are and all that comes out of your mouth is "hey victim, you should change" then yeah, you're effectively blaming the victim.

Suppose tomorrow I made a cheap pill that would make black people look white. By your logic, your position would be: "Hey, black people: Racism is hard to change, and it'd be much easier if you just stop being so darned black."

Can you see why that's obvious bullshit? And therefore your "Honey, stop looking so darned Muslim" is similarly bullshit?

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#123

Post by wpietri » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 7:12 AM UTC

ktizo wrote: post #121

Jach wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you would, I guess, also suggest that Sikhs should stop wearing turbans, Jews should stop wearing a kippah, nuns should stop wearing habits, pagans should stop wearing pentangles, etc. Only if said individuals of the group are uncomfortable with their experience of discrimination. Others have thicker skins and ignore it, and some don't face any discrimination at all. Some want to rebel against society like a tee…

So you are saying that if you are uncomfortable with your experience of discrimination then you should change your appearance to appease your persecutor? Do you make this crap up yourself, or does it get sent to you through the mail as part of your subscription to Batshit Monthly?

I believe it actually comes in Privileged Young White Dude Fortnightly.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#124

Post by petsos » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 8:36 AM UTC

ftwinnovations wrote: post #116

grecy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why you choose to compare your country to "one of those countries" when you clearly indicate you think they are not as good as yours? You are like the coach of a sporting team pointing out all the teams that finished lower than yours on the ladder and saying "We did great compared to them . Good job. Keep it up." Surely, if you were actually interested in improving your team, you would point out the teams th…

"One of those" saved time over naming off each country, considering everyone knows which countries I'm referring to. And is my country better? Um... Yeah. By orders of magnitudes it's better.

I don't, would you mind naming them?

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#125

Post by Gigablah » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 9:18 AM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #99

grecy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly believe America is captivated right now by fear itself. It could be nuclear fallout from Japan, or Islam, or H1N1, or drug cartels in Mexico, or Canadian healthcare, or communists, or the Arab Spring, or any number of other things that for all intents are purposes are almost entirely non-threatening to the average citizen on the street. The focus of the fear is completely irrelevant. The primary goal is pe…

Funny thing about Americans; if they mind their own business, other nations laugh at them for being stupid and ignorant only concerned about their trash TV and oversized drinks. On the other hand, if the average American does show some interest in international affairs or political ideas, people say he's in perpetual fear and mind controlled by politicians. You just can't win.

You were so desperate to make that point that you equated "interest" with "irrational fear".

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#126

Post by ktizo » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 9:25 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #123

ktizo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying that if you are uncomfortable with your experience of discrimination then you should change your appearance to appease your persecutor? Do you make this crap up yourself, or does it get sent to you through the mail as part of your subscription to Batshit Monthly?

I believe it actually comes in Privileged Young White Dude Fortnightly.

Many people do, the dirty minx.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#127

Post by quadhome » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 9:35 AM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #31

gurkendoktor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and I wish we could do that, but how? I won't look half as convincing if I wrap a scarf around my head. I have thought about this after reading about Günther Wallraff[1], and I haven't found a nice way to try this out. Maybe I should "dress up" on the internet? So far, the closest experience I have is being white and understanding Chinese - but it doesn't hurt nearly as much, the worst people regularly think…

When it comes to skin color it's definitely a tall order - but it's realistic to do it re: orientation, wealth, or a large number of other factors where major discrimination happens. This is a similar story: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-straight-christian... The whole masquerade part also isn't strictly necessary, putting yourself close to the issues at hand is also helpful. I've never been homeless, but…

He said it in The Innocents Abroad.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#128

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 9:36 AM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #16

guylhem wrote: post #9

If wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose…

People don't believe in a religion because it's convenient. If it were simple like that, everybody'd be atheist, there are no rules attached to that whatsoever. People have a belief because they believe. Or perhaps because they think a certain lifestyle is a good one (isn't that what bhuddism is? I know too little about this...).

How many people simply have their religion forced on them?

I've known Muslim who'll eat pork when not in the presence of other Muslims who would frown on that. I'm not sure how important trying to remain within their community is to them, but maybe they would stop practising if they could do so without prejudice from their own community.

I think everyone needs a reality check.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#129

Post by ktizo » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 9:44 AM UTC

dgesang wrote: post #48

ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you think "look at you funny" and "called me a terrorist" are equivalent.

The latter was said by a child, so it's not even worth talking about. The mother acted wrongly, not the child. But lets twist it, only without the masquerade: Imagine 'Ela' is on holiday in the Near East and wears a tank top. Don't you think that people would 'look funny at her'? She also might get molested for not being dressed properly. Local women even get stoned for that.

Near East is a big and poorly defined area. Israel is in the Near East according to the US State Department, but not according to the Library of Congress (which is a little odd as the Library of Congress does list all of Israel's neighbours as being in the Near East).

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#130

Post by stats1011 » Sun, Oct 21, 2012, 2:58 PM UTC

This is an exemplar of how much courage it takes for women Muslims to dress in a manner to upkeep their beliefs. Women who wear the hijab should be praised to the utmost. The society they operate it is xenophobic, and at times very bigoted. I for one, as a late 20's person of faith, would struggle to muster up such strength.