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I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

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Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#41

Post by antoko »

guylhem wrote: post #9

If wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose…

Wearing a hijab doesn't cause anything. People having prejudice is the cause. The hijab just allows this white girl to experience it.

People CAN choose their religion, but should they based off of how other people make them feel about it?

You're missing a step... "Your religion makes you feel bad" NO! Other people make me feel bad about my religion. That's pretty obviously prejudice.

Also for most groups of people they don't chose their religion and can't simply change it (family pressures), and while what is described in the article refers to religion (hijab) having dark skin and speaking farsi or urdu is just as likely to cause the reaction in people due to fear of muslims, the prejudiced people are just as likely to filter on ethnic/nationality grounds as religious ones.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#43

Post by coopdog »

mgkimsal wrote: post #15

Total western white-male stereotype-infused ignorance here but... Perhaps people avoid muslim women because we don't want them to get in to trouble. I'm surprised to see women dressed like that out in public on their own, because I've been led to believe they need male escorts, and assume that one might be around. if I make eye-contact, I might be contributing to an honor-killing, or perhaps some acid-splashed on her…

It's true. Is it so strange that people would be nervous around a culture where even drawing a picture can get you in trouble? People who know that they don't know enough about the culture are probably right to be cautious until they can learn more

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#45

Post by ninetax »

This thread makes me very sad and happy at the same time.

So many of the comments show an ignorance I thought to be a thing of the past or at least taboo.

But there seems to be just as many other commenters trying to help educate and enlighten, it's great to see that we are at least making progress.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#46

Post by wpietri »

Jach wrote: post #17
potatolicious wrote: post #3

An exercise more people should partake in. Sometimes on HN I find it shocking just how completely clueless some of our prolific commentators are re: prejudice, whether by race, gender, creed, orientation, or anything else. The number of times I've seen people in privileged positions try to downplay, trivialize, and belittle those struggling with prejudice has made me want to quit HN more than once. Walking a mile in…

Some of us have walked in the others' shoes, at least in this limited case of discrimination based solely on clothing. Guess what? Humans discriminate on clothing! You can drum up the social justice network and try to remove this neural programming without drugs, good luck with that. You can try and fight it, again, sincerely, good luck, I agree that clothing is irrelevant when judging other people, but I don't think…

Terrible analogy. People aren't discriminating because they think hijabs are unfashionable. They're discriminating because they correctly interpret the hijab as a religious marker.

Did you notice that your advice basically amounts to "do your best to look like a straight, white, middle-class Christian"? And that you are basically blaming the victim? Both strike me as terrible advice.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#47

Post by Jach »

ceejayoz wrote: post #14
guylhem wrote: post #9

If wearing a hijab cause people to call you names, throw bad looks or more generally makes you feel discriminated against, what about trying not to wear an hijab?? Maybe I'm clueless and prejudiced and all that but it seems to me that religion was a perfectly "open" choice, ie something you can change at any time. Comparing that in any way to racism is insulting. People do not chose their ethnicity. People can chose…

I'm an atheist, but it's quite clear that many of my religious friends can no more easily change their religion than their ethnicity - particularly for reasons as absurd as other people holding unreasonable prejudices.

I suspect this may just be a case of lack of religious competition in the area your friends live and work in. I grew up in Utah, so of course few people changed their religions, but Mormonism is fairly successful at converting people outside Utah. They do so best by establishing communities and inviting others to join their fun activities. Sure, in America most conversions are just to a different denomination of "Christianity", but religious conversion happens all the time. (A Pew study indicated that 44% of Americans have a different religion than the one they were raised with.)

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#48

Post by dgesang »

ceejayoz wrote: post #11
sergiotapia wrote: post #8

So? If I were to go to Saudi Arabia and wear jeans and a wife beater I would get looks as well. You find it strange that people look at you funny when you wear a hijab in a western country? I have a Muslim cousin and she sometimes wears a hijab to university but stopped because people would stare at her. Obviously! She stuck out like a sore thumb amidst a sea of people with no hijabs. She got tired of people asking h…

Interesting that you think "look at you funny" and "called me a terrorist" are equivalent.

The latter was said by a child, so it's not even worth talking about. The mother acted wrongly, not the child.

But lets twist it, only without the masquerade: Imagine 'Ela' is on holiday in the Near East and wears a tank top. Don't you think that people would 'look funny at her'? She also might get molested for not being dressed properly. Local women even get stoned for that.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#49

Post by wpietri »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #34
wpietri wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a turban? You could go for a Sikh turban: http://www.sikhnet.com/pages/tyingturbans or a Muslim one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1_HfOMRBM I'm sure you could go to a local gurdwara or mosque and ask for pointers. They'd probably be over the moon. It's also not particularly hard to look verging-on-homeless poor.

Right, but I am white as paper and it takes a while to grow a beard. I would look like a male convert, something that (to me) seems much more exotic than a tanned person wearing a turban.

Well, that was basically Ela's experience as well, and it was educational for her.

If you really want to do skin tones, you'll need decent makeup. If you're in a big city, just go by a serious makeup store. (In San Francisco, Kryolan is great.) Otherwise, call up your local community theater and ask them to put you in touch with a makeup artist.

Re: I went to the mall, and a little girl called me a terrorist.

#50

Post by ktizo »

Jach wrote: post #17
potatolicious wrote: post #3

An exercise more people should partake in. Sometimes on HN I find it shocking just how completely clueless some of our prolific commentators are re: prejudice, whether by race, gender, creed, orientation, or anything else. The number of times I've seen people in privileged positions try to downplay, trivialize, and belittle those struggling with prejudice has made me want to quit HN more than once. Walking a mile in…

Some of us have walked in the others' shoes, at least in this limited case of discrimination based solely on clothing. Guess what? Humans discriminate on clothing! You can drum up the social justice network and try to remove this neural programming without drugs, good luck with that. You can try and fight it, again, sincerely, good luck, I agree that clothing is irrelevant when judging other people, but I don't think…

If I were a muslim girl getting discriminated against for wearing a hijab, I'd stop wearing the hijab.

So you would, I guess, also suggest that Sikhs should stop wearing turbans, Jews should stop wearing a kippah, nuns should stop wearing habits, pagans should stop wearing pentangles, etc.

Not only is your suggestion frankly both offensive and pretty idiotic, but the world it would lead to would have even more discrimination than now and be a hell of a lot more boring.

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