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FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#571

Post by jaybrendansmith »

knubie wrote: post #538
8note wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it's just pitting people against law enforcement who have no idea what they're up against. i think people know exactly what theyre up against: a lawless executive, many members of which have never had to work in places where they are held accountable to the constitution before. its more important for the government to follow the constitution than for citizens to follow the law. if the government isnt follow…

[flagged]

And you have it completely upside down. The federal government serves the people, the people do not serve the feds. If, while attempting to enforce federal law through ICE, the feds break the Bill of Rights, they are doing more harm than good. We can live with a few illegals. We cannot leave the house if we expect to be murdered in cold blood on the street by the federal government. The instigating event of the American Revolution was the Boston Massacre, where protesters were shot and killed by British soldiers. Sound familiar?

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#572

Post by kaitai »

tbrownaw wrote: post #454
LastTrain wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so obvious to you to investigate something that is perfectly legal?

> something that is perfectly legal The goal is to prevent ICE / BP from doing their jobs. Which I rather suspect is not actually legal. Thinking they're incompetent doesn't change that. Thinking the specific laws they're (nominally) enforcing are evil doesn't change that. Thinking that national borders are fundamentally illegitimate doesn't change that. Perhaps the FBI had been ignoring this out of incompetence. Per…

Indeed, as sibling commenter notes, it's not to prevent ICE from doing their jobs. Observers do not take physical actions to block ICE/CBP. Observers are there to

1) get the name & some other info from the person being abducted so that their family can be contacted

2) record the encounter so that ICE/CBP has some check on their behavior, or legal action can be taken in the future to prosecute them for violence and destruction of property

3) recover the belongings of the person abducted and ensure family/friends can get these things, as often wallet, cell phone, shoes, coat, and vehicle (even still running) are left behind

4) get a tow truck for any vehicle left behind, preferably from one of the tow services that is towing for free or low cost

4) connect family/friends with legal resources, if needed, or simply let them know that their lawyer needs to get to the Whipple Building ASAP

None of those things are illegal. In some of the small rural towns in Minnesota, there aren't observers there, and the phones/vehicles/wallets of people kidnapped from Walmart are just... left in the parking lot, in the snow. It adds insult to injury to have your phone & wallet gone, your car window smashed in, and a big fee from the municipal towing lot if you're a US citizen who is then released from detainment 12 hours later. And if you're not a US citizen but you have legal status, you want your family to get an attorney working ASAP to ensure you're not flown to Texas -- because if you're flown to Texas, even in error, you need to get back on your own (again without your wallet/phone/etc if those things didn't happen to stick with you).

Not to mention they keep releasing people with no phone & no jacket, even no shoes, into the zero or negative degree weather we've been having.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#573

Post by avcloudy »

CMay wrote: post #397
flumpcakes wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American VA Hospital ICU Nurse was disarmed and executed. Which crime is it OK to be chemically and physically assaulted before being disarmed and shot dead?

As far as I understand it, he laid hands on the officer, then struggled against arrest. He had a gun on him, which is not in itself a problem, but he had already broken the law 3 times by this point and the fact he had a gun on him instantly escalates the potential threat. They don't know if he has multiple guns on him or just the one. Supposedly one of the videos shows him reaching for some black object. I don't kno…

This is just lunatic speech. The one place he didn't have a gun was in his hands. You're out here acting like if he'd had a gun strapped to his ankle it would have been proof beyond any doubt he was intending to shoot and kill ICE officers.

He was pepper sprayed and on the ground surrounded by 6 agents when he was killed. At the time when an agent said that he had a gun (this was after his gun was removed), he was physically pinned with his arms restrained. He wasn't 'reaching for an object'. He was carrying his phone in his hand before he was restrained and shot a dozen times.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#574

Post by cindyllm »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #568

- Don't join giant group chats unless you're Whiskey Pete inviting journalists into a "clean" opsec group. - Know others very personally or not at all. - Don't take a phone to any event without it being in a proven good RF blocking bag.. I wished they made a bag that allowed taking pictures and video with audio. - New people can potentially be liabilities such as crazy, stupid, undercover cops or adversaries, and/or…

[dead]

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#575

Post by spacechild1 »

CMay wrote: post #397
flumpcakes wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An American VA Hospital ICU Nurse was disarmed and executed. Which crime is it OK to be chemically and physically assaulted before being disarmed and shot dead?

As far as I understand it, he laid hands on the officer, then struggled against arrest. He had a gun on him, which is not in itself a problem, but he had already broken the law 3 times by this point and the fact he had a gun on him instantly escalates the potential threat. They don't know if he has multiple guns on him or just the one. Supposedly one of the videos shows him reaching for some black object. I don't kno…

I have seen the videos. He was already on the ground, fixated by several ICE agents, when he was shot 10(!) times. That was after he had been peppersprayed and beaten to the head. At no point did he actually draw or reach for his gun. There was absolutely no reason to shoot him.

> With any luck investigation will reveal more details.

Kristi Noem said: "This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage on individuals and kill law enforcement." She even went so far as calling this an act of "domestic terrorism". At this point, do you seriously believe there will be a neutral investigation?

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#576

Post by avcloudy »

CMay wrote: post #457
ncallaway wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what collaboration looks like

[flagged]

> Don't let your compassion be weaponized.

It's telling on yourself that you think compassion for other people, the core idea that other peoples needs might be more important that your own, is objectively a weapon. You're not wrong that there's a lot of disinformation about, but from a purely historical view, the one position that has never been right is fence-sitting.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#577

Post by heavyset_go »

SR2Z wrote: post #100
charliebwrites wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steps to trouble: - identify who owns the number - compel that person to give unlocked phone - government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat not just that person Corollary: Disappearing messages severely limits what can be read

Unless they compel people at gunpoint (which prevents the government from bringing a case), they will probably not have much luck with this. As soon as a user sets up a passcode or other lock on their phone, it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside. It's much more likely that the government convinces one member of the group chat to turn on the other members and give up their pho…

They'll just threaten to throw the book at you if you don't unlock your phone, and if you aren't rich, your lawyer will tell you to take the plea deal they offer because it beats sitting in prison until you die.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#578

Post by CMay »

inetknght wrote: post #536
CMay wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand it, he laid hands on the officer, then struggled against arrest. He had a gun on him, which is not in itself a problem, but he had already broken the law 3 times by this point and the fact he had a gun on him instantly escalates the potential threat. They don't know if he has multiple guns on him or just the one. Supposedly one of the videos shows him reaching for some black object. I don't kno…

> As far as I understand it, he laid hands on the officer, then struggled against arrest. That's not how I understand it. > Supposedly one of the videos shows him reaching for some black object. I don't know. It would be good if you'd watch this review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIOwTMsDSZA

So I checked it out, but it's not really relevant. These activists appear to have followed the federal law enforcement. That highly suggests they knew exactly who they were. The officers didn't show up unannounced to the front door of someone who happened to be an activist. No reasonable court is likely to determine that they were unaware who they were dealing with.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#579

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #521

This is one of the reasons it's crucial that the next set of secure messaging systems does away with tying real phone numbers to accounts. One phone gets compromised and the whole network is identified with their phone numbers.

If the Signal Messaging LLC is compromised, then "updates", e.g., spyware, can be remotely installed on every Signal user's computer, assuming every Signal user allows "automatic updates". I don't think Signal has a setting to turn off updates

Not only does one have to worry about other Signal users being compromised, one also has to worry about a third party being compromised: the Signal Messaaging LLC

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#580

Post by refurb »

donkeybeer wrote: post #297
epistasis wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And importantly the DoJ attorneys who would be responsible for investigating g the murders resigned because they were prevented from performing the standard procedure investigation that happens after every single shooting. They were instead directed to investigate the family of the person who was shot: https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/nyt-6-federal-prosecutor... We are through the looking glass, folks. This will b…

That's straight up corrupt third world country stuff.

How is it corrupt? The DA chose to resign, they weren't forced out.
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