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France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

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Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#461

Post by TheRoque »

cmiles8 wrote: post #70

I wish them luck, but while saying folks will drop the dominant apps seems all the rage at the moment people have been saying this for decades with almost no real progress at scale. The only way to accomplish this at scale is to build something that is legit better and let the market decide. Anything else is just principled wishful thinking.

> The only way to accomplish this at scale is to build something that is legit better and let the market decide. Anything else is just principled wishful thinking.

Classic neo-liberalism BS (pardon my french). Markets are not some natural law written in the atoms, it's a human construction, and we shape it the way we want. Countries can create or destroy markets just with laws, you put a tax here, you put a legal requirement there. That's for example the reason that big american tech companies have been kicked out of South Korea:

- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/08/south-korea-go...

- https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2023/12/05/an-update-on-twitch-in-...

Sure, if there are 2 competing companies that play with the exact set of rules, the mArKeT wIlL deCiDe, but that would be a really stupid decision from any government to not shape the rules in its favor. Europe is slowly waking up to this reality, better late than never I guess.

Did the "market decide" that Nvidia chips won't be shipped to China ? Did "the market decide" to put tariffs to get benefits from other countries ? Did "the market decide" to put embargo to Cuba, Iran, Venezuela.. ?

Hearing that regulations and laws is "wishful thinking" makes no sense at all. It's more the opposite, it's the only way to shape the markets the way you want to.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#462

Post by beloch »

xp84 wrote: post #388
beloch wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take the Canadian market for granted. There's a strong desire to forge closer links with the EU now and reduce dependence on products that could be weaponized against us at any time. Geographic proximity doesn't count for much when it comes to software.

> weaponized against us I take a more optimistic stance here. Trump can only live so long, and everybody except basically Trump and John Bolton knows that the majority of his idiotic tariffs (and nonsensical belligerence like pretending NATO control of Greenland doesn't meet all our defense needs) are wealth-destroying on net, as well as wealth-destroying for at least 10x the number of people than they help (many of…

MAGA will likely not die with Trump, and the Democrats have done their fair share to shaft Canada too. (If Jimmy Carter were still alive you could ask him about his family tree farm and what he thinks of softwood lumber tariffs.) As our PM recently said in Davos, the U.S.-led rules-based world order was a bit of a sham from the get-go. Certain countries were more equal than others. The rules were always flexible and they bent in favour of the U.S. most of all. Canada and other middle powers got an okay deal nonetheless, so we went along with it. That's over now, and "Nostalgia is not a strategy.".

Now that we're always going to be four years or less from the next potential bout of American insanity, it's time to build a new order that is less vulnerable to big powers and more equitable for everyone else. An order in which the rules are applied more consistently and have teeth. That doesn't necessarily mean breaking out the feather quills and having a big shin-dig at Versailles though. It's doing lots of little things that shift our dependence to like-minded middle powers whenever and wherever possible.

e.g. The white house has threatened other countries (including Canada) with tariffs in order to deter regulation or taxation of american software giants in non-U.S. jurisdictions. That makes dependence on these companies an exploitable (and already exploited) weakness. This is why governments, like France, want alternatives.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#463

Post by tempestn »

xp84 wrote: post #388
beloch wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take the Canadian market for granted. There's a strong desire to forge closer links with the EU now and reduce dependence on products that could be weaponized against us at any time. Geographic proximity doesn't count for much when it comes to software.

> weaponized against us I take a more optimistic stance here. Trump can only live so long, and everybody except basically Trump and John Bolton knows that the majority of his idiotic tariffs (and nonsensical belligerence like pretending NATO control of Greenland doesn't meet all our defense needs) are wealth-destroying on net, as well as wealth-destroying for at least 10x the number of people than they help (many of…

It seems optimistic to me at this point that he could be replaced by a Republican not largely crafted in his image. It's possible, but I certainly wouldn't take it for granted.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#464

Post by sbarre »

rchaud wrote: post #270
beloch wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take the Canadian market for granted. There's a strong desire to forge closer links with the EU now and reduce dependence on products that could be weaponized against us at any time. Geographic proximity doesn't count for much when it comes to software.

It should also go without saying that Canada already had a vertically integrated telecoms giant in RIM/Blackberry that handled end to end smartphone comms globally in the 3G era, right down to compressing emails through their servers so they could be transmitted efficiently over 2G data networks. Unfortunately Blackberry was heavily dependent on US telecoms and corporations buying their servers and devices to pad the…

Canada's telcos are a "narrow waist" for a lot of software licensing.

A lot of business customers bundle their business/productivity software with their phone and Internet services. Did you know you can buy Google Workspace and/or Microsoft Office through your telco? I was shocked to find out how many do this when I worked for one of the telcos.

Just like how consumers bundle their streaming services with their home Internet plans.

One bill for all the things is convenient.

I would bet it's the same in EU (but can't say for sure, I only have first-hand info about Canada).

If there was a real push to move companies away from these platforms, it would probably start there, mostly because the telcos are typically very government-aligned due to regulatory and spectrum concerns, and would get in line with government efforts to promote non-US alternatives, if they decided to.

Getting the majority of consumers to ditch their US-based streaming and entertainment is another thing though, I can't see that happening ever, no matter how at-odds the US and Canada become.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#465

Post by tempestn »

xp84 wrote: post #436
Propelloni wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note that I'm not saying everyone should give the US a pass or maintain as much economic and defense dependency on the US. But I think it's hyperbolic to make all your long-term plans assuming something as stupid and self-defeating as his worst anti-ally policies are a new normal, because they harm the US at least as much as they harm everyone else, and everyone but those two knows this. It is debatable if everyone…

> After all, according to the last NYT poll the current POTUS commands an approval rating of 41 % in the USA. The number of people I meet who do not understand how tariffs work, for example, is staggering. For sure -- the bottom 41% of economic literacy are so misinformed that they have no clue what they're talking about. But those voters aren't picking the nominee for President from among a circus of general morons,…

I don't know, one might argue the US primary system is closer to the circus.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#466

Post by hadlock »

timbit42 wrote: post #444
estimator7292 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada just announced a huge deal with China last week. You're wrong on all counts.

No. You're wrong on all counts. That was not a "huge deal". Canada reduced tariffs on EVs to get reduced tariffs on some agriculture items. This put things back to where they were a few years ago. Canada doesn't have a free trade deal with China like it does with the US and Mexico.

Canada has been extremely closely aligned with US vehicle manufacturing for over a century. I'm not sure if Canada has a bigger lever to shoot american auto manufacturing in the leg. Opening the door to Chinese electric vehicles rattles the very foundations of American manufacturing. If anything, "huge deal" was an understatement.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#467

Post by tempestn »

xp84 wrote: post #442
dleslie wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think every American needs to understand this quote: > "We will never fucking trust you again."[0] It doesn't matter that Trump will eventually no longer be President, and it doesn't matter that there are still members of the American political establishment that support the old way of doing things. Trump does not act alone, and there is rapid attrition of those older bureaucrats who valued the USA's allies. Trump'…

Thanks for that excellent link. I suppose I have to remain optimistic here, but I think that you and I disagree on one really important thing and time will prove one of us right (I think we both probably hope I'm right): I think that Trump is too different from the others, even people he's ushering into the administrative state. That's my opinion because Trump seems to govern from: - 1 part petty corruption: stupid s…

There is a pessimistic take on that too though. What if the next guy gives you all the corruption and cruelty, without the vanity and stupidity?

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#468

Post by softwaredoug »

shin_lao wrote: post #337
softwaredoug wrote: post #113

Americans fail to appreciate a few things about our economy 1. We have a large homgoneous market where you can build a product and it’s expected it can succeed for hundreds of millions of Americans 2. EU is the easiest second market, and another step change of hundreds of millions of customers in a somewhat unified market 3. there’s not an easy 3rd economy that replaces EUs wealth, population, and comfort with Englis…

EU market is by no mean easy, it's heavily fragmented requiring very often intense localization effort.

For sure. But a major goal of US foreign policy was to create an EU so it would be easier for trade. Backsliding on support, wanting to sabotage it, doesn’t help US companies as it just adds burden.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#469

Post by dillydogg »

xp84 wrote: post #456
dillydogg wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who haven't looked at the results, I find them more depressing: >What emotion best describes how you feel about Donald Trump’s presidency so far? Of Republicans: 40% Satisfaction 24% Enthusiasm/pride 6% Hope 5% Relief They are loving this.

Of course they are, they haven't seen or thought through any consequences yet. Wait and see how they feel in 2 ½ more years.

I suspect if what has transpired doesn't make them concerned, they will only be emboldened.

Re: France Aiming to Replace Zoom, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, etc.

#470

Post by gmueckl »

Epa095 wrote: post #266
cmiles8 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all a roundabout way to get Europe to step up and do more for its own defense… the current negotiation style leaves much to be desired, but it’s shaking things up as intended.

Yes, it's clearly all 5d chess to manipulate a retarded ally to do what's best for it against it's will, all going according to plan. /s Good luck meeting China without friends. Clearly brilliant statesmanship. Europe is able to read, the room, the situation, and the National Security Strategy, which makes it pretty clear that meddling with European democracy is a important foreign policy.

Let's be clear that meddling means destroying freedom and democracy in Europe. That's the stated goal of the US at this point.
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