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After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

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Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you as a teacher teach might have to adapt a bit. Teaching how code works is more important than teaching how to code. Most academic computer scientists aren't necessarily very skilled as programmers in any case. At least, I learned most of that after I stopped being an academic myself (Ph. D. and all). This is OK. Learning to program is more of a side effect of studying computer science than it is a core goal (…

I only learn when I do things, not when I hear how they work. I think the teacher has the right idea.

A million percent! I was so bad at Math in school. Which I primarily blame on the arbitrary way in which we were taught it. It wasn't until I was able to apply it to solving actual problems that it clicked.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#262
I feel vindicated by this article, but I shouldn't. I have to admit that I never developed the optimism to do this for two years, but have increasingly been trying to view this as a personal failing of closed-mindedness, brought on by an increasing number of commentators and colleagues coming around to "vibe-coding" as each "next big thing" in it dropped.

I think the most I can say I've dove in was in the last week. I wrangled some resources to build myself a setup with a completely self-hosted and agentic workflow and used several open-weight models that people around me had specifically recommended, and I had a work project that was self-contained and small enough to work from scratch. There were a few moving pieces but the models gave me what looked like a working solution within a few iterations, and I was duly impressed until I realized that it wasn't quite working as expected.

As I reviewed and iterated on it more with the agents, eventually this rube-goldberg machine started filling in gaps with print statements designed to trick me and sneaky block comments that mentioned that it was placeholder code not meant for production in oblique terms three lines into a boring description of what the output was supposed to be. This should have been obvious, but even at this point four days in I was finding myself missing more things, not understanding the code because I wasn't writing it. This is basically the automation blindness I feared from proprietary workflows that could be changed or taken away at any time, but much faster than I had assumed, and the promise of being able to work through it at this higher level, this new way of working, seemed less and less plausible the more I iterated, even starting over with chunks of the problem in new contexts as many suggest didn't really help.

I had deadlines, so I gave up and spent about half of my weekend fixing this by hand, and found it incredibly satisfying when it worked, but all-in this took more time and effort and perhaps more importantly caused more stress than just writing it in the first place probably would have

My background is in ML research, and this makes it perhaps easier to predict the failure modes of these things (though surprisingly many don't seem to), but also makes me want to be optimistic, to believe this can work, but I also have done a lot of work as a software engineer and I think my intuition remains that doing precision knowledge work of any kind at scale with a generative model remains A Very Suspect Idea that comes more from the dreams of the wealthy executive class than a real grounding in what generative models are capable of and how they're best employed.

I do remain optimistic that LLMs will continue to find use cases that better fit a niche of state-of-the-art natural language processing that is nonetheless probabilistic in nature. Many such use cases exist. Taking human job descriptions and trying to pretend they can do them entirely seems like a poorly-thought-out one, and we've to my mind poured enough money and effort into it that I think we can say it at the very least needs radically new breakthroughs to stand a chance of working as (optimistically) advertised

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#263
post #175

How were you "vibe coding" 2 years ago? There's been such a massive leap in capabilities since claude code came out, which was middle/end of 2025. 2 years ago I MAYBE used an LLM to take unstructured data and give me a json object of a specific structure. Only about 1 year ago did I start using llms for ANY type of coding and I would generally use snippets, not whole codebases. It wasn't until September when I starte…

Vibe coding was coined less than a year ago: https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383

Yeah, I laughed when I saw the headline.

Now I expect to start seeing job postings asking for "3 years of experience vibe coding"

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#264
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't done long division in decades, am probably unable to do it anymore, and yet it has never held me back in any tangible fashion (and won't unless computers and calculators stop existing)

I am rather positive that if you were sat down in a room and couldn't leave unless you did some mildly complicated long division, you would succeed. Just because it isn't a natural thing anymore and you have not done the drills in decades doesn't mean the knowledge is completely lost.

If you are concerned that embedding "from first-principles" reasoning in widely-available LLM's may create future generations that cannot, then I share your concern. I also think it may be overrated. Plenty of people "do division" without quite understanding how it all works (unfortunately).

And plenty of people will still come along who love to code despite AI's excelling at it. In fact, calling out the AI on bad design or errors seems to be the new "code golf".

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#265

I came to "vibe coding" with an open mind, but I'm slowly edging in the same direction. It is hands down good for code which is laborious or tedious to write, but once done, obviously correct or incorrect (with low effort inspection). Tests help but only if the code comes out nicely structured. I made plenty of tools like this, a replacement REPL for MS-SQL, a caching tool in Python, a matplotlib helper. Things that…

I agree, and like to add, > It is hands down good for code which is laborious or tedious to write, but once done, obviously correct or incorrect (with low effort inspection). The problem here is, that it fills in gaps that shouldn't be there in the first place. Good code isn't laborious. Good code is small. We learn to avoid unnecessary abstractions. We learn to minimize "plumbing" such that the resulting code contai…

Dunno. GUI / TUI code? "Here's a function that serialises object X to CSV, make a (de)serialiser to SQLite with tests". "And now to MS-SQL" pretty please".

I don't how much scope realistically there is for writing these kinds of code nicely.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#266
post #252

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The article starts with: > you give it a simple task. You’re impressed. So you give it a large task. You’re even more impressed. That has _never_ been the story for me. I've tried, and I've got some good pointers and hints where to go and what to try, a result of LLM's extensive if shallow reading, but in the sense of concrete problem solving or code/script writing, I'm _always_ di…

[flagged]

I don't love these kinds of throwaway comments without any substance, but...

"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It"

...might be my issue indeed. Trying to balance it by not being too stubborn though. I'm not doing AI just to be able to dump on them, you know.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#267

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The article starts with: > you give it a simple task. You’re impressed. So you give it a large task. You’re even more impressed. That has _never_ been the story for me. I've tried, and I've got some good pointers and hints where to go and what to try, a result of LLM's extensive if shallow reading, but in the sense of concrete problem solving or code/script writing, I'm _always_ di…

I am getting workable code with Claude on a 10kloc Typescript project. I ask it to make plans then execute them step by step. I have yet to try something larger, or something more obscure.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#268

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The article starts with: > you give it a simple task. You’re impressed. So you give it a large task. You’re even more impressed. That has _never_ been the story for me. I've tried, and I've got some good pointers and hints where to go and what to try, a result of LLM's extensive if shallow reading, but in the sense of concrete problem solving or code/script writing, I'm _always_ di…

I have found AI great in alot of scenarios but If I have a specific workflow, then the answer is specific and the ai will get it wrong 100% of the time. You have a great point here. A trivial example is your happy path git workflow. I want: - pull main - make new branch in user/feature format - Commit, always sign with my ssh key - push - open pr but it always will - not sign commits - not pull main - not know to reb…

> why am I relying on that if the AI is so smart?

Because it's not? I use these things very extensively to great effect, and the idea that you'd think of it as "smart" is alien to me, and seems like it would hurt your ability to get much out of them.

Like, they're superhuman at breadth and speed and some other properties, but they don't make good decisions.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#269

I came to "vibe coding" with an open mind, but I'm slowly edging in the same direction. It is hands down good for code which is laborious or tedious to write, but once done, obviously correct or incorrect (with low effort inspection). Tests help but only if the code comes out nicely structured. I made plenty of tools like this, a replacement REPL for MS-SQL, a caching tool in Python, a matplotlib helper. Things that…

I agree, and like to add, > It is hands down good for code which is laborious or tedious to write, but once done, obviously correct or incorrect (with low effort inspection). The problem here is, that it fills in gaps that shouldn't be there in the first place. Good code isn't laborious. Good code is small. We learn to avoid unnecessary abstractions. We learn to minimize "plumbing" such that the resulting code contai…

The quote that I heard (I think on HN) was, "If we had AIs to write XML for us then we never would have invented json."

My biggest LLM success resulted in something operationally correct but was something that I would never want to try to modify. The LLM also had an increasingly difficult time adding features.

Meanwhile my biggest 'manual' successes have resulted in something that was operationally correct, quick to modify, and refuses to compile if you mess anything up.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#270
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "vibe coding" term is causing a lot of brain rot. Because when I see people that are downplaying LLMs or the people describing their poor experiences it feels like they're trying to "vibe code" but they expect the LLM to automatically do EVERYTHING. They take it as a failure that they have to tell the LLM explicitly to do something a couple times. Or they take it as a problem that the LLM didn't "one shot" someth…

I'd like it to take less time to correct than it takes me to type out the code I want and as of yet I haven't had that experience. Now, I don't do Python or JS, which I understand the LLMs are better at, but there's a whole lot of programming that isn't in Python or JS...

I've had success across quite a few languages, more than just python and js. I find it insanely hard to believe you can write code faster than the LLM, even if the LLM has to iterate a couple times.

But I'm thankful for you devs that are giving me job security.

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