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After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

atmoio.substack.com

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Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#231

Post by sltr »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #8

AI is incredibly dangerous because it can do the simple things very well, which prevents new programmers from learning the simple things ("Oh, I'll just have AI generate it") which then prevents them from learning the middlin' and harder and meta things at a visceral level. I'm a CS teacher, so this is where I see a huge danger right now and I'm explicit with my students about it: you HAVE to write the code. You CAN'…

LLMs are not bicycles for the mind. They are more like E-bikes. More assist makes you go faster, but provides less exercise.

https://www.slater.dev/2025/08/llms-are-not-bicycles-for-the...

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#232

Post by bitwize »

jrm4 wrote: post #64
orev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s like weightlifting: sure you can use a forklift to do it, but if the goal is to build up your own strength, using the forklift isn’t going to get you there. This is the ultimate problem with AI in academia. We all inherently know that “no pain no gain” is true for physical tasks, but the same is true for learning. Struggling through the new concepts is essentially the point of it, not just the end result. Of cou…

I like this analogy along with the idea that "it's not an autonomous robot, it's a mech suit." Here's the thing -- I don't care about "getting stronger." I want to make things, and now I can make bigger things WAY faster because I have a mech suit. edit: and to stretch the analogy, I don't believe much is lost "intellectually" by my use of a mech suit, as long as I observe carefully. Me doing things by hand is probab…

No, it's not a mech suit. A mech suit doesn't fire its canister rifle at friendly units and then say "You're absolutely right! I should have done an IFF before attacking that unit." (And if it did the engineer responsible should be drawn and quartered.) Mech-suit programming AI would look like something that reads your brainwaves and transduces them into text, letting you think your code into the machine. I'd totally use that if I had it.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#233

Post by kaydub »

reedf1 wrote: post #74

Karpathy coined the term vibecoding 11 months ago ( https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383 ). It caused quite a stir - because not only was it was a radically new concept, but fully agentic coding had only become recently possible. You've been vibe coding for two years ??

Yeah, that's what I pointed out.

Just more FUD from devs that think they're artisans.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#234

Post by bandrami »

kaydub wrote: post #218
freedomben wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. I've known for a very long time that our community has a serious problem with binary thinking, but AI has done more to reinforce that than anything I can think of in modern memory. Nearly every discussion I get into about AI is dead out of the gate because at least one person in the conversation has a binary view that it's either handwritten or vibe coded. They have an insanely difficult time imagining any…

The "vibe coding" term is causing a lot of brain rot. Because when I see people that are downplaying LLMs or the people describing their poor experiences it feels like they're trying to "vibe code" but they expect the LLM to automatically do EVERYTHING. They take it as a failure that they have to tell the LLM explicitly to do something a couple times. Or they take it as a problem that the LLM didn't "one shot" someth…

I'd like it to take less time to correct than it takes me to type out the code I want and as of yet I haven't had that experience. Now, I don't do Python or JS, which I understand the LLMs are better at, but there's a whole lot of programming that isn't in Python or JS...

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#235

Post by fragmede »

specproc wrote: post #221
quinnjh wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analogy works pretty well. Too much time doing everything in it and your muscles will atrophy. Some edge cases will be better if you jump out and use your hands.

I like the electric bike as a metaphor. You can go further faster, but you quickly find yourself miles from home and out of juice, and you ain't in shape enough to get that heavy bugger back.

As long as we're beating the metaphor... so don't do that? Make sure you charge the battery and that it has enough range to get you home, and bring the charger with you. Or in the LLMs case, make sure it's not generating a ball of mud (code). Refactor often, into discrete classes, and distinct areas of functionality, so that you're never miles from home and out of juice.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#236

Post by ReverseCold »

GolDDranks wrote: post #229
GolDDranks wrote: post #219

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. The article starts with: > you give it a simple task. You’re impressed. So you give it a large task. You’re even more impressed. That has _never_ been the story for me. I've tried, and I've got some good pointers and hints where to go and what to try, a result of LLM's extensive if shallow reading, but in the sense of concrete problem solving or code/script writing, I'm _always_ di…

Just a supplementary fact: I'm in the beneficial position, against the AI, that in a case where it's hard to provide that automatic feedback loop, I can run and test the code at my discretion, whereas the AI model can't. Yet. Most of my criticism is not after running the code, but after _reading_ the code. It wrote code. I read it. And I am not happy with it. No even need to run it, it's shit at glance.

> I can run and test the code at my discretion, whereas the AI model can't.

It sounds like you know what the problem with your AI workflow is? Have you tried using an agent? (sorry somewhat snarky but… come on)

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#237

Post by bitwize »

ekidd wrote: post #230
WorldMaker wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also plenty of mech tales where the mech pilots need to spend as much time out of the suits making sure their muscles (and/or mental health) are in good strength precisely because the mechs are a "force multiplier" and are only as strong as their pilot. That's a somewhat common thread in such worlds.

Yes. Also, it's a fairly common trope that if you want to pilot a mech suit, you need to be someone like Tony Stark. He's a tinkerer and an expert. What he does is not a commodity. And when he loses his suit and access to his money? His big plot arc is that he is Iron Man. He built it in a cave out of a box of scraps, etc. There are other fictional variants: the giant mech with the enormous support team, or Heinlein'…

You don't need to be Tony Stark. But, "if you're nothing without the suit then you don't deserve it."

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#238

Post by wrs »

jrm4 wrote: post #64
orev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s like weightlifting: sure you can use a forklift to do it, but if the goal is to build up your own strength, using the forklift isn’t going to get you there. This is the ultimate problem with AI in academia. We all inherently know that “no pain no gain” is true for physical tasks, but the same is true for learning. Struggling through the new concepts is essentially the point of it, not just the end result. Of cou…

I like this analogy along with the idea that "it's not an autonomous robot, it's a mech suit." Here's the thing -- I don't care about "getting stronger." I want to make things, and now I can make bigger things WAY faster because I have a mech suit. edit: and to stretch the analogy, I don't believe much is lost "intellectually" by my use of a mech suit, as long as I observe carefully. Me doing things by hand is probab…

OK, it’s a mech suit. The question under discussion is, do you need to learn to walk first, before you climb into it? My life experience has shown me you can’t learn things by “observing”, only by doing.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#239

Post by kaydub »

rtp4me wrote: post #40

I never trust the opinion of a single LLM model anymore - especially for more complex projects. I have seen Claude guarantee something is correct and then immediately apologize when I feed a critical review by Codex or Gemini. And, many times, the issues are not minor but are significant critical oversights by Claude. My habit now: always get a 2nd or 3rd opinion before assuming one LLM is correct.

Happy to see someone else doing this.

All code written by an LLM is reviewed by an additional LLM. Then I verify that review and get one of the agents to iterate on everything.

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