Live data from Hacker News

After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

atmoio.substack.com

151–160 of 652 posts

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#151
Good for the author. Me, never going back to hands-only coding. I am producing more higher quality code that I understand and feel confident in. I tell AI to not just “write tests”, I tell it exactly what to test as well. Then I’ll often prompt it “hey did you check for the xyz edge cases?” You need code reviews. You need to intervene. You will need frequent code rewrites and refactors. But AI is the best pair-coding partner you could hope for (at this time) and one that never gets tired.

So while there’s no free lunch, if you are willing to pay - your lunch will be a delicious unlimited buffet for a fraction of the cost.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#152

AI is incredibly dangerous because it can do the simple things very well, which prevents new programmers from learning the simple things ("Oh, I'll just have AI generate it") which then prevents them from learning the middlin' and harder and meta things at a visceral level. I'm a CS teacher, so this is where I see a huge danger right now and I'm explicit with my students about it: you HAVE to write the code. You CAN'…

I haven't done long division in decades, am probably unable to do it anymore, and yet it has never held me back in any tangible fashion (and won't unless computers and calculators stop existing)

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#153
post #128

I'm flabbergasted why anyone would voluntarily vibe code anything. For me, software engineering is a craft. You're supposed to enjoy building it. You should want to do it yourself.

Do you honestly get satisfaction out of writing code that you've written dozens of times in your career? Does writing yet another REST client endpoint fill you with satisfaction? Software is my passion, but I want to write code where I can add the maximum value. I add more value by using my experience solving new problems that rehashing code I've written before. Using GenAI as a helper tool allows me to quickly write the boilerplate and get to the value-add. I review every line of code written before sending it for PR review. That's not controversial, it's just good engineering.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#154
Process and plumbing become very important when using ai for coding. Yes, you need good prompts. But as the code base gets more complex, you also need to spend significant time developing test guides, standardization documents, custom linters, etc, to manage the agents over time.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#155
post #79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this analogy along with the idea that "it's not an autonomous robot, it's a mech suit." Here's the thing -- I don't care about "getting stronger." I want to make things, and now I can make bigger things WAY faster because I have a mech suit. edit: and to stretch the analogy, I don't believe much is lost "intellectually" by my use of a mech suit, as long as I observe carefully. Me doing things by hand is probab…

This analogy works pretty well. Too much time doing everything in it and your muscles will atrophy. Some edge cases will be better if you jump out and use your hands.

There's also plenty of mech tales where the mech pilots need to spend as much time out of the suits making sure their muscles (and/or mental health) are in good strength precisely because the mechs are a "force multiplier" and are only as strong as their pilot. That's a somewhat common thread in such worlds.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#157
post #2

I'm impressed that this person has been vibecoding longer than vibecoding has been a thing. A real trailblazer!

GitHub copilot was released in 2021, and Cursor was released around October 2023[0]. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37888477

Early cursor was just integrated chat and code completion. No agents.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#158
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a misunderstanding based on loose definition of "vibe coding". When companies threw around the "90% of code is written by AI" claims, they were referring to counting characers of autocomplete basing on users actually typing code (most of which was eequivalent to "AI generated" code by Eclipse tab-completion decade ago), and sometimes writing hyperlocal prompts for a single method. We can identify 3 levels of "…

I believe Anthropic is already doing Level 3 vibe coding for >90% of their code.

They have not said that. They've only said that most of their code is written by Claude. That is different than "vibe coding". If competent engineers review the code then it is little different than any coding.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#159

AI is incredibly dangerous because it can do the simple things very well, which prevents new programmers from learning the simple things ("Oh, I'll just have AI generate it") which then prevents them from learning the middlin' and harder and meta things at a visceral level. I'm a CS teacher, so this is where I see a huge danger right now and I'm explicit with my students about it: you HAVE to write the code. You CAN'…

What you as a teacher teach might have to adapt a bit. Teaching how code works is more important than teaching how to code. Most academic computer scientists aren't necessarily very skilled as programmers in any case. At least, I learned most of that after I stopped being an academic myself (Ph. D. and all). This is OK. Learning to program is more of a side effect of studying computer science than it is a core goal (…

> A good analogy here is programming in assembler. Manually crafting programs at the machine code level was very common when I got my first computer in the 1980s. Especially for games. By the late 90s that had mostly disappeared.

Indeed, a lot of us looked with suspicion and disdain at people that used those primitive compilers that generated awful, slow code. I once spent ages hand-optimizing a component that had been written in C, and took great pleasure in the fact I could delete about every other line of disassembly...

When I wrote my first compiler a couple of years later, it was in assembler at first, and supported inline assembler so I could gradually convert to bootstrap it that way.

Because I couldn't imagine writing it in C, given the awful code the C compilers I had available generated (and how slow they were)...

These days most programmers don't know assembler, and increasingly don't know languaes as low level as C either.

And the world didn't fall apart.

People will complain that it is necessary for them to know the languages that will slowly be eaten away by LLMs, just like my generation argued it was absolutely necessary to know assembler if you wanted to be able to develop anything of substance.

I agree with you people should understand how things work, though, even if they don't know it well enough to build it from scratch.

Re: After two years of vibecoding, I'm back to writing by hand

#160

I tell my students that they can watch sports on tv, but it will not make them fit. On a personal note, vibe coding leaves me with that same empty hollow sort of tiredness, as a day filled with meetings.

Last week I just said f it and developed a feature by hand. No Copilot, no agents. Just good old typing and a bit of Intellisense. I ran into a lot of problems with the library I used, slowly but surely I got closer to the result I wanted. In the end my feature worked as expected, I understand the code I wrote and know about all the little quirks the lib has.

And as a added benefit: I feel accomplished and proud of the feature.

Post reply on HN