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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#171

Post by ikidd »

throw0101c wrote: post #135
Kaibeezy wrote: post #25

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react…

> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […] Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy ): * https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/ So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these ac…

And was a pretty rabid conservative until the Trump era. He only left the Republicans in 2024, he was around for the first term.

Maybe he's grown a spine.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#172

Post by thrance »

eudamoniac wrote: post #169

I read through every comment in this thread and no one seems to be addressing that the people voted for this . They'll probably vote for it again in the midterms and/or 2028. You're despairing over a democratic outcome. What do you actually propose that would fix this? Disenfranchise half the country? Outlaw things people are voting for to happen? Any criticism needs to address how we democratically counter this regi…

I actually think disenfranchisement is the only solution. Nazis didn't change their worldview after the war ended, they were shamed for them and learned to hide.

Republicans are now defending straight-up murder in broad daylight by federal forces. I doubt there's anything that could change their minds at this point, they're too far gone.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#173

Post by defrost »

RealityVoid wrote: post #84
idiotsecant wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are absolutely people in this group who woke up hoping they got an excuse to murder someone. You interact with the entire gamut of human experience every day, but you never know which ones are the secret heroes and which ones are the secret concentration camp guards until they're presented with the right set of circumstances. It's as much a mistake to assume that everyone is relatively moral as it is to assume…

I agree with you, I just assume that the percentage of completely evil people is much smaller than most people think, but large enough that you interact with them regularly. And that you can get good people to do evil things if you put them in the right situation.

My comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46751234 and the link to a Coroner's report might be of interest.

Most LEO's are lawful well intentioned, but they do stand by and cover for a good many who are not, those that these days have encrypted chat groups dehumanising those they interact with and swapping notes on what they can get away with and come out smelling of roses.

Those rotten apples corrupt new recruits and normalise harshly putting the boot in, curb stomping, and other extremes.

An acquaintance of mine has seen the full roller coaster over the past 45 years, first defending police that were unquestionably exuberant in violence, later shunned for having had enough and pulling the rug.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quigley_(politician)

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#174

Post by thunky »

fhdkweig wrote: post #103
wslh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder how politically weak the US could be if its rivals and adversaries see this level of internal violence as an opportunity to step up pressure or exploit divisions at home.

I'm of the opinion that the Russians, through paid online trolling, are responsible for starting this 10 years ago. They helped stoke the fears that got Trump elected the first time.

Don't forget to give CNN the credit it deserves.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#175

Post by deeg »

tombert wrote: post #142
mickle00 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish there was more transparency around mod actions

I think generally the mods like to avoid anything involving "politics" since it's likely to start a flame war. The issue, of course, is that literally anything can be "political", and moreover by trying to actively avoid political discussions you sort of tacitly endorse the status quo. It's a tough line to draw, and I'd be lying if I said where I knew where to draw it; HN is a fun forum specifically because the moder…

I've been frustrated by the flagging (because fascism is so real right now) but I've been a moderator in the past and I know it's impossible to keep a large majority happy. It's hard for me to criticize the mods much.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#176

Post by lossolo »

Kaibeezy wrote: post #25

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react…

> How it ends. Where we likely go from there.

I highly recommend Anniversary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12583926/

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#177

Post by xnx »

eudamoniac wrote: post #169

I read through every comment in this thread and no one seems to be addressing that the people voted for this . They'll probably vote for it again in the midterms and/or 2028. You're despairing over a democratic outcome. What do you actually propose that would fix this? Disenfranchise half the country? Outlaw things people are voting for to happen? Any criticism needs to address how we democratically counter this regi…

> Disenfranchise half the country?

Way more than half the country was disenfranchised in the last election. Best case scenario (and very unlikely scenario): blue sweep in the next elections and then massive electoral reform.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#179

Post by krapp »

fhdkweig wrote: post #103
wslh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder how politically weak the US could be if its rivals and adversaries see this level of internal violence as an opportunity to step up pressure or exploit divisions at home.

I'm of the opinion that the Russians, through paid online trolling, are responsible for starting this 10 years ago. They helped stoke the fears that got Trump elected the first time.

The fears that got Trump elected the first time have been a part of American culture since the civil war, if not the founding of the nation itself. You can find echoes of him all the way back to the John Birch Society. This is an entirely American problem.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#180

Post by deeg »

eudamoniac wrote: post #169

I read through every comment in this thread and no one seems to be addressing that the people voted for this . They'll probably vote for it again in the midterms and/or 2028. You're despairing over a democratic outcome. What do you actually propose that would fix this? Disenfranchise half the country? Outlaw things people are voting for to happen? Any criticism needs to address how we democratically counter this regi…

I think a lot of voters were fooled (or foolish) into thinking that Trump would limit himself to go after other people; he got a higher percentage of minority votes in 2024 then prior elections. That's not good but the mask is off and I think Trump has lost a lot of those voters.

It's also hard to quantify how much the pandemic and inflation moved some voters away from Biden/Harris.

I think Dems will win big in the next election. The question is how long this lesson will last with voters.

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