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Yes, It's Fascism

theatlantic.com

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Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#131

Post by throw0101c »

mickle00 wrote: post #54
mingus88 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why isn’t ICE in the states with the most immigrants?

logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots

> logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots

Let's not forgot and/or (3) going after Minnesota voter roles (per this letter from Pam Bondi):

* https://archive.is/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/...

* https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bondi-minnesota-voter-rolls-wel...

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#132

Post by mickle00 »

throw0101c wrote: post #131
mickle00 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots

> logic would indicate that its either (or both) (1) its not about immigration (it's about power and control thru fear) or (2) they're idiots Let's not forgot and/or (3) going after Minnesota voter roles (per this letter from Pam Bondi): * https://archive.is/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/... * https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bondi-minnesota-voter-rolls-wel...

I see that as a subset of 1 (power & control thru fear), but yeah, clearly, and obviously not the 'stated' reasons

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#133

Post by gizmov21 »

quercus wrote: post #37
testing22321 wrote: post #3

The parallels it dark times in history are too strong to ignore. The only question now is will the people be able to stop the takeover before it’s too late.

“weak men create hard times” never fails

Who are the “weak men” in your interpretation of today’s scenario? I have my own ideas but I wonder about others.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#134

Post by mistermaster1 »

usernomdeguerre wrote: post #90
mistermaster1 wrote: post #80

[flagged]

So the only point someone could conceivably write this article, in your mind, would be the moment after its writers and platforms would be subjected to state-sanctioned punishment for uttering it? I'll accept a little front-running then, if you don't mind.

No they could write it in another state, anonymously, or on more underground/less mainstream established platforms than one of the oldest publications in the history of the republic. More like what’s happening with regards to Iran. Also, front-running also implies that there’s an order for fascism coming up. So the intent of establishing fascism is preceded by a bungled and visibly brutal and horribly implemented performative “operation” that this massacre by ICE is? That makes no sense. This is not an order for fascism that an article is sort of front-running protectively. The better analogy is a media entity predictably calling one extremely messed up thing another extremely messed up thing, and leaving a massive vulnerability for their side. Messed-up-thing-promoting folks will use articles like this a year from now after ICE ceases operations, effectively issuing a silent “apology” of sorts and curtailing the violence, to promote the next messed up thing they want to do (which may be less messed up than the ICE massacres but still would be quite messed up and avoidable).

Every pessimistic approximation isnt always good. We lose credibility when we keep doing it.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#135

Post by throw0101c »

Kaibeezy wrote: post #25

If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance, not political in form — test-fitting an imprecise definition. The fact it also reaches a firm conclusion (spoiler alert right there in the title) is depoliticized by allowing for malleable application. A benchmark article I will now go share elsewhere. What’s left to talk about? How to react…

> If you are debating whether to read this article, read it. It’s comprehensive and precise, and although political in substance […]

Also perhaps worth noting that David Frum, former speech writer to Dubya Bush, writes for The Atlantic (and has been against Trump from the start: see his book Trumpocracy):

* https://www.theatlantic.com/author/david-frum/

So we're not just talking about 'leftists' criticizing these actions and policies.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#137

Post by mistermaster1 »

RealityVoid wrote: post #98
mistermaster1 wrote: post #80

[flagged]

> True fascism would not allow the massive criticism and outrage (including by active lawmakers and heads of state & local governments) that recent events have reasonably led to. It hasn't yet captured the whole country. The parts of criticism they have had the power to silence, they have already silenced. Who's in the White House press corps again? When they will capture all the power they need, the criticism will b…

Thank you for your personal, individual wisdom that exceeds that of 230+ million eligible US voters in the 2026. That about settles it, we are past the point of no return so we should do absolutely nothing. In fact any action would be irrational, a waste of effort and a misallocation of time and energy vs spending it with our families and/or on ourselves. And somehow, I am the person who is defending the so-called fascists and ensuring a place “shining their jackboots” (your peer here used this expression to try to denigrate/attack me)? It must really hurt to be so smart and to be able to see all of the future perfectly.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#138

Post by mnicky »

protastus wrote: post #107
mnicky wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't the same happen after Biden was elected? And see, it achieved nothing, regrettably...

No, it didn't. Order was not restored, criminals were encouraged, and here we are.

I should have put it differently. I'm afraid that maximum what will be realistically done will be similar to the situation after the Biden got elected. And that didn't help.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#139

Post by RealityVoid »

throw0101c wrote: post #123
RealityVoid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen. The shooting of Alex Pretti was a long chain of escalatory and poor decisions on the part of ICE (well, assuming here that "good" is defined by not shooting people, I'm sure some in this admin might disagree). I might come…

> The point is, when tense situations happen, you need to have everyone keep their cool. If someone flinches, people die. Repeat this situation many many times over a day, and tragedies will happen. Except that "flinching" is not happening. An earlier comment of mine: --- On the most recent event, a reduced-speed video showing one agent (centre, bent over at beginning) removing the victim's firearm from his waistband…

I saw the video, it was horrifying. My (admittedly, attempting to be as charitable as possible to murderers) take is that the one taking the weapon must have said he has a gun, and the first shooter reacted to that. It's a very sad day for the US, Alex Pretti seemed like a great person and what happened was disgraceful.

I still think that the most dangerous thing from this whole situation is how this admin frames it and effectively encourages ICE to kill people further, because there will be no consequence for them. Essentially, same thing they did with the Jan 6 protesters.

Re: Yes, It's Fascism

#140

Post by RealityVoid »

mistermaster1 wrote: post #137
RealityVoid wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True fascism would not allow the massive criticism and outrage (including by active lawmakers and heads of state & local governments) that recent events have reasonably led to. It hasn't yet captured the whole country. The parts of criticism they have had the power to silence, they have already silenced. Who's in the White House press corps again? When they will capture all the power they need, the criticism will b…

Thank you for your personal, individual wisdom that exceeds that of 230+ million eligible US voters in the 2026. That about settles it, we are past the point of no return so we should do absolutely nothing. In fact any action would be irrational, a waste of effort and a misallocation of time and energy vs spending it with our families and/or on ourselves. And somehow, I am the person who is defending the so-called fa…

I'm honestly sorry, you're right to be angry. I'm not trying to demobilize you. I'm despairing myself as well, I hope for the US to keep its shit together. But I just don't think it's looking great. Sorry, really, I don't want to make fun of the shit the US is in.

I think I _am_ guilty of using a poor intellectual facade trying to make sense of this what the fuck historical moment we're in. Because trust me, my country is in a dangerous place as well.

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