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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#541

Post by kakacik »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #430
izacus wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you so motivated to rewrite history to defend a mega corporation?

Why are you so motivated to fight the truth?

Truth is, apple didn't want to migrate their phones due to some internal decision not relevant for us, and the fact some other devices were on it doesn't change this. Users comfort was never part of the equation, its politics, sales projection, stabs at competition and similar.

Truth is, apple fought EU hard, we saw it from inside quite well. Backstabs, some cheap tricks trying to delay and evade this, even when it was clear how things will be. Not their best days to be polite.

Why giving some heartless mega corporation free moral credits if they are not well deserved?

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#542

Post by shiandow »

lokar wrote: post #368
goldenarm wrote: post #182

Sideloading is a neologism to scare users and lawmakers, it just means "Installing software" and should be a basic right. Also software installation in Android has been high friction for a while. Installing an APK on my phone is at least 10 clicks.

I think what is missing here is the growing trend of scammers convincing people they are their bank (or whatever) and walking them through enabling side-loading and then installing malware (sometimes to address some urgent security issues with their account). This is meant to counter an actual issues that is affecting many many users.

I have no trust in a solution that mostly benefits the proposer.

By all means let people curate and use safe lists of software, but let's not pretend that making the life harder for the few registries containing solely open source and vetted software is in any way about making people safer.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#543

Post by ece »

miki123211 wrote: post #470
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

This isn't about pure revenue, it's about scams. Android has a reputation for being unsafe precisely because of sideloading (as well as low Google Play fees, looser app review, accessibility services and remote access). This policy is bad for us HNers, but objectively good for the 95+% of people who will never sideload a legitimate Android app, but are extremely likely to get caught by scammers. The heavy US skew of…

Scams are the justification, F-Droid hasn't had any scam apps throughout it's existence, and it's not clear every functionality it currently has will be preserved with this change like auto-updating apps and easy installation of the store itself.

Google could let users add their own signing keys (like browsers allow), and it might be they will let students or power users do this, or they could do what F-Droid does in packaging FOSS apps without developers having to provide extra PII information. If they do neither of these things, it de facto means they're only after control at the expense of normal users.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#544

Post by einpoklum »

lokar wrote: post #368
goldenarm wrote: post #182

Sideloading is a neologism to scare users and lawmakers, it just means "Installing software" and should be a basic right. Also software installation in Android has been high friction for a while. Installing an APK on my phone is at least 10 clicks.

I think what is missing here is the growing trend of scammers convincing people they are their bank (or whatever) and walking them through enabling side-loading and then installing malware (sometimes to address some urgent security issues with their account). This is meant to counter an actual issues that is affecting many many users.

It seems you think what is missing here is some FUD, which is what I believe you are feeding us with here.

If there's anyone people need to be protected against, it's Alphabet and Apple and the entities they let in intentionally, rather than specter of "growing trend of scammers".

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#545

Post by thaumasiotes »

londons_explore wrote: post #26
thaumasiotes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Google's] strategy is growing markets, especially in india, and africa, and of course China. Really? China? Where Google services are banned and Android phones come with local OS versions that cut them out? "High-friction sideloading" won't affect anyone in China. It won't be part of their experience at all.

I think OP is suggesting that the ability to sideload is what is preventing their phones being distributed in China. If you can present a "locked down" phone to regulators, you might be more likely to get permission to sell large volumes of them - like iPhones in China.

> I think OP is suggesting that the ability to sideload is what is preventing their phones being distributed in China.

This comment is insane in several different ways.

There's nothing preventing Google's phones from being distributed in China. They already are distributed in China.

Those phones won't come with the vendor OS installed; they'll come with an OS that works without a hitch in China.

One of the modifications to the local OS will be to make sideloading trivial, since that's how you're expected to install apps.

If you did start selling phones with a stock Android OS in China, those phones wouldn't work because their connections to Google services would all be blocked.† The reason for that block has nothing to do with sideloading or even with phones. It's going to stay in place.

† In my experience, it's still possible to receive pushes from Google while you're in China. For example, you can't connect to the Play Store, but if you visit the Play Store in a browser on a different device that can dodge the Great Firewall, and tell it that you want to install something to your phone, Google will reach out and make the install to your phone even if your phone isn't dodging the firewall.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#546

Post by ndriscoll »

al_borland wrote: post #474
Aardwolf wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do those updates matter? Not for me at least usually (exception might be something like an rpg game expanding the world), apps nagging to get updated is annoying in fact.

> apps nagging to get updated is annoying in fact. There is no nagging. Apps auto-update on iOS, and have for years. I had 15 apps update in the last week. There was no nagging or notifications. It just happens. My only gripe is that they seem to want to update right after I take it off the charger in the morning, instead of at night. But I only actually notice this once or twice per year, if I go to use an app that’…

Apps also auto update on Android. Frequently though, the updates reduce functionality or make it more annoying (basics like messages, calculator, photos, calendar, etc have been 'done' for a decade+ and can only really be made worse), so personally I've turned that off for most apps (and I suppose the other poster has too). Of course Google being aggressive assholes, they then have some of their apps start showing popups every time you open it telling you to update when the entire point was to have it not change in functionality and not introduce that sort of thing.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#547

Post by [deleted] »

choo-t wrote: post #423
lokar wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what is missing here is the growing trend of scammers convincing people they are their bank (or whatever) and walking them through enabling side-loading and then installing malware (sometimes to address some urgent security issues with their account). This is meant to counter an actual issues that is affecting many many users.

If you can convince the user your are their bank, can convince them to install software and walk them through how to do it and enable side loading, you can also convince them to input their logging into any webpage.

[deleted]

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#548

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

"Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. "

How does one know there is a long-term strategy

History has shown that so-called "tech" companies often act in a reactionary manner^1

1. Often, the act is of one of copying what someone else has done. Other times it might be response to regulation

One could argue Android itself was a reaction to iOS

This is one example of the reactionary copying phenomenon but HN replies may choose to focus only on this one example and not on the overall "tech" company phenomenon of reactionism as exhibited through endless copying

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#549

Post by gmueckl »

lokar wrote: post #363
1970-01-01 wrote: post #311

I'm with Google on this one. Idiots and old people (the public) use these devices daily. These are the very same people that send money to Nigerian royalty and expect to hear back about a great reward. This is mostly a CYA move with hard data behind it. If they completely removed side load, that would be a different story.

I don’t think calling people who don’t really understand computer security a can be tricked “stupid” is fair or helpful. Designing a product so that almost all of it’s intended users can operate it safely seems like the right decision.

Wait a second... making a product that is safe and easy to use requires removing or mitigating potential hazards involving product. Building safeguards around a feature that can be used to hurt people in significant ways is exactly that, isn't it?

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#550

Post by acdha »

Kwpolska wrote: post #445
acdha wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize a conspiracy narrative gets more clicks but … you know Apple started the development of USB-C and shipped some of the first devices in 2015, right? People whined about the MacBooks requiring new hubs, etc. for a couple of years and got over it. The same thing happened with the iPad in 2018, AirPods, etc. When they introduced Lightning in 2012, they made a commitment to all of the third-party hardware develo…

But why would Apple, the company that famously hates backwards compatibility, make things easier for third-party accessory manufacturers, instead of making things easier for users bought into the ecosystem who had USB-C on their iPads and Macs? Oh right, because they collected license fees and royalties for Lightning, reportedly $4 per cable. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22209924

Sure, I’m not saying they’re altruists. I just think the most likely explanation is that they promised compatibility under the “Made For iPhone” program and kept that promise because they’ve been in business long enough to know that screwing people who supported your last product is a great way to ensure they don’t support your next one.
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