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TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

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Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#41

Post by spencerflem »

smt88 wrote: post #31
petterroea wrote: post #29

It's great that Americans can now enjoy being surveiled by private companies instead of possibly being surveiled by a government. What a great improvement

Do you feel there's no difference between being surveilled by Oracle and being surveilled by the CCP? They're both terrible, but do you really think they're equivalent? There's also the issue of the algorithm being used for propaganda, which (again) is also terrible in the hands of either party, but with potentially very different outcomes.

The CCP has far less impact on my life as an American than the US government.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#43

Post by malevolent-elk »

manuelmoreale wrote: post #26
eudamoniac wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is terrible. Before now it was fine, just Chinese intelligence agencies and data brokers mining it and Chinese interests pumping it full of human and bot sockpuppets to manufacture the consent of users to be more aligned with ideas that work best for the CCP's interests, but now it's just ruined.

I’ll engage with this because I’m curious about your position. I’m not a TikTok user and I’m not American. All the other American controlled social media platforms are exactly like your China description from my point of view: it’s American agencies and data brokers mining it and American interests pumping it. Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? I have no symp…

You have no real reason to believe me, but if it's worth anything, I work with US agencies in the domain of information warfare and the relationships with platforms are tenuous if not adversarial. And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine. But if you really do believe that the US is pulling the platforms' strings, I do indeed encourage disentanglement or forcing sales as you describe. What I have seen through my work has strongly reinforced my biases against the Chinese government, but I recognize that others may view my own government in that light.

Personally, I worry more about the platforms and data brokers themselves, as I think everyone should and does. They hold disproportionate power and their incentives drive us all in the wrong direction.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#44

Post by petterroea »

smt88 wrote: post #31
petterroea wrote: post #29

It's great that Americans can now enjoy being surveiled by private companies instead of possibly being surveiled by a government. What a great improvement

Do you feel there's no difference between being surveilled by Oracle and being surveilled by the CCP? They're both terrible, but do you really think they're equivalent? There's also the issue of the algorithm being used for propaganda, which (again) is also terrible in the hands of either party, but with potentially very different outcomes.

It's not the same, I see it more as two flavours of bad. However, the scary thing with private surveillance is that we do not know and won't know for a while the extent it is used.

Private surveillance however has the possibility to be much worse than government surveillance. We are already seeing collected data being used by the government to carry out enforcement (see period app subpoenas and the cameras that track where everyone drives), but the private actors have a perverse incentive to surveil as much as they can and make as much actionable data on it as possible. They can then show up at the governments door and offer it.

That is, private surveillance has the potential to surveil in ways governments don't even know they want, and they have an incentive to find any hole in the surveillance market and fill it.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#45

Post by felipeerias »

devsda wrote: post #21

Good. now that it is done, can EU and the rest of the world push for regional ownership of Instagram, WhatsApp and Youtube without the US complaining unfair practices. Chinese ownership as a security threat is currently in between reality and conspiracy realms but the US govt meddling as a threat is a proven reality worldwide.

I am European and live in Japan.

China is currently providing weapons for Russia to wage large-scale war in Europe, while supporting a dictatorship in North Korea that regularly launches nuclear-capable misiles in my general direction.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#47

Post by tombert »

NoteyComplexity wrote: post #7

What is the point of using short form content platforms as a consumer really? Just put the political stuff aside, they are often too short for any details over any topics if not straightly brainrot, ending up making people get distracted and lost patience easily. I never a fan of YouTube shorts and instagram reels either because of the same reason. Perhaps they are good for promotion, but as a user perspective, can a…

I have been trying so hard to get YouTube to stop recommending shorts to me. I am pretty sure that the "Show Fewer Shorts" thing you can choose in the app doesn't actually do anything.

My wife loves TikTok to a point that she will take it personally when I complain about it, but I absolutely hate the "vertical short form video" crap that's gotten popular. I'm probably just showing my age, even with my admittedly-quite-flakey attention span, I feel like TikTok and YouTube shorts are just kind of irritating. So much stuff on there is either low-effort crap with lip syncing to some clip from a movie, or shit yelling at me with burned in giant subtitles, both of which are almost certainly part of my own personal hell.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#48

Post by gizzlon »

petterroea wrote: post #29

It's great that Americans can now enjoy being surveiled by private companies instead of possibly being surveiled by a government. What a great improvement

”Instead of” or "in addition to" ?

Would not put it past them to influence what content people see on TikTok either.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#49

Post by manuelmoreale »

malevolent-elk wrote: post #43
manuelmoreale wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll engage with this because I’m curious about your position. I’m not a TikTok user and I’m not American. All the other American controlled social media platforms are exactly like your China description from my point of view: it’s American agencies and data brokers mining it and American interests pumping it. Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? I have no symp…

You have no real reason to believe me, but if it's worth anything, I work with US agencies in the domain of information warfare and the relationships with platforms are tenuous if not adversarial. And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine. But if you really do believe that the US is pulling the platforms' strings, I do indeed encourage disentanglement or forcing sales as you describe. What I have seen throug…

So, I both don’t have any reason not to take your words at face value and I also don’t have any reason to believe you are in the know of anything that’s happening within your government. I assume you’re not the president (you write too well and make too much sense to be him)

So there’s obviously a level of general skepticism here that I consider to be healthy.

That said, the simple fact that lobbying is a thing and the government can be influenced by the use of money is a sign that the A relationship of some level exists.

Now, I personally am on none of those platforms. I use the bare minimum I need and even in that case, as a paying customer of those companies, I don’t expect them to treat me nicely.

Because money seems te be the only thing that matters at this point and morals are way further down the line.

All that said, from an outside observer, seeing the China argument coming from America, considering everything that’s happening in plain sight, it’s ironic to say the least.

Re: TikTok is officially US-owned for American users, here's what's changing

#50

Post by gizzlon »

malevolent-elk wrote: post #43
manuelmoreale wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll engage with this because I’m curious about your position. I’m not a TikTok user and I’m not American. All the other American controlled social media platforms are exactly like your China description from my point of view: it’s American agencies and data brokers mining it and American interests pumping it. Do you think a reasonable course of action is for us to force the sell of American platforms? I have no symp…

You have no real reason to believe me, but if it's worth anything, I work with US agencies in the domain of information warfare and the relationships with platforms are tenuous if not adversarial. And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine. But if you really do believe that the US is pulling the platforms' strings, I do indeed encourage disentanglement or forcing sales as you describe. What I have seen throug…

> And nothing happens on the scale you might imagine

Do you think it will be different with TikTok US, being owned by Trump's friends (and family?) ?

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