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Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

arstechnica.com

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Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#301

Post by ajross »

thebigman433 wrote: post #292
ajross wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... yeah, but the Tesla will do that on an empty road, then approach a slow car from behind and make a lane change decision to pass, then take your next exit and continue on through city streets, through all sorts of traffic conditions, to your destination. And it will monitor your attention with eye tracking instead of making you mess with the wheel. It's absolutely true that the rest of the industry is rolling…

> Well... yeah, but the Tesla will do that on an empty road, then approach a slow car from behind and make a lane change decision to pass, then take your next exit and continue on through city streets, through all sorts of traffic conditions, to your destination. And it will monitor your attention with eye tracking instead of making you mess with the wheel. The point is that it now only does that if you subscribe. If…

> If I dont want to pay a monthly fee, an economy car now has a better feature set in this area

It's... a car. You already pay a monthly fee. Probably several.

I get the marketing angle here, that this is a bad look and will drive away customers.

I was responding to the attempt upthread (which you just repeated) to conflate it with a technical argument ("better feature set"). The feature set is not worse because it costs money. FSD is in fact market leading.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#302

Post by rraihansaputra »

tzs wrote: post #278
shade wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2023 Crosstrek, my wife has a '21 Ascent. I have the same habit you do - edging away from large trucks slightly - and both of them do the same thing you described to me. It's essentially that Subaru's lane system actually has two levels: it has lane keeping where it's just trying to keep you inside the lines, and then on top of that it also has lane centering which is pretty much what it says. Just a note fo…

> It's essentially that Subaru's lane system actually has two levels: it has lane keeping where it's just trying to keep you inside the lines, and then on top of that it also has lane centering which is pretty much what it says. Same with Hyundai except they call them "Lane Keeping Assist" (LKA) and "Lane Following Assist" (LFA) and I have trouble remembering which one centers you and which one just keeps you from le…

idk whether subaru is exact the same as hyundai but i basically turned lane centering off on my hyundai. when possible i only use radar cruise control, and lane follow. if i want to overtake, turn on my signal and it'll automatically safely increase speed to set cc speed and let the lane follow off. it's pretty seamless.

lane centering is a bit too annoying for me, i need to keep my hands on the wheels anyway.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#303

Post by nxtfari »

scottyah wrote: post #44
nxtfari wrote: post #18

My guess is Tesla is desperately in need of Q1 revenue and they want people to scarcity buy FSD lifetime @ $8K. Otherwise the strategy doesn’t make any sense. They’re saying FSD and basic Autopilot will go behind subscription and that subscription prices are expected to go up. Basically laying out that they’re planning to lock you into a subscription and then price gouge. It’s so transparent that I think the point is…

1. There's a CA lawsuit against the FSD name, Tesla has to fix it by Feb 14th (the last day FSD is being sold). I wonder if it'll just be a rebrand for the new service. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/news-and-media/news-releases/d... 2. Elon's Trillion Dollar Payout is tied to a certain number of FSD Subscriptions. 3. Some consumers were sold that they would get hardware upgrades for FSD. I'm pretty sure Tesla would l…

Good context, thank you. I think this changes my view, you’re more likely right.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#304

Post by morgoo »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #59
scottyah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There's a CA lawsuit against the FSD name, Tesla has to fix it by Feb 14th (the last day FSD is being sold). I wonder if it'll just be a rebrand for the new service. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/news-and-media/news-releases/d... 2. Elon's Trillion Dollar Payout is tied to a certain number of FSD Subscriptions. 3. Some consumers were sold that they would get hardware upgrades for FSD. I'm pretty sure Tesla would l…

> 4. Subscriptions drive our economy, I don't know the details but it seems like every company wants subscriptions over one time purchases. Every person I know wants a subscription, too. Who wouldn’t want a nest egg throwing off passive income?

Just don't think about the long term economic effects of rent-seeking

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#305

Post by eudamoniac »

idibiks wrote: post #247
shermantanktop wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL about Precision Immobilization Technique (PIT). Sounds pretty euphemistic for intentionally crashing into someone at highway speeds. Maybe the average cop has better driving skills than I'm giving them credit for, but...I doubt it...

No, it's literally that. It's super dangerous and the practice of performing it in any but very unusual situations is, to put it mildly, hard to justify on any actual public safety grounds. To the extent the maneuver is a "safe" version of making a car crash, it's (relatively) safe for the cop causing the crash . A certain segment of the public, plus cops themselves (having significant overlap with that segment), lov…

I would rather a cop risk a runner's life every time than let him continue to flee at speed recklessly for miles on end, usually culminating in crashing into an innocent person or their property. That's not even a question for me. Or would you rather just let criminals run away if they manage to enter a vehicle?

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#306

Post by testing22321 »

Zigurd wrote: post #180
testing22321 wrote: post #82

Somewhat related, there are now robotaxis giving rides to customers in Austin with no driver, and no safety monitor inside at all. Progress, for sure.

There's no monitor in the car. But there is a chase car with a monitor in it. Technically correct is the best kind isn't it?

Yes, correct.

The next step will be remote monitors with the ability to drive if needed. That will be identical to Waymo I now.

Then the next step is nobody watching.

Progress is fantastic, it means more choices for consumers, lower prices, better tech.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#307

Post by idibiks »

eudamoniac wrote: post #305
idibiks wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's literally that. It's super dangerous and the practice of performing it in any but very unusual situations is, to put it mildly, hard to justify on any actual public safety grounds. To the extent the maneuver is a "safe" version of making a car crash, it's (relatively) safe for the cop causing the crash . A certain segment of the public, plus cops themselves (having significant overlap with that segment), lov…

I would rather a cop risk a runner's life every time than let him continue to flee at speed recklessly for miles on end, usually culminating in crashing into an innocent person or their property. That's not even a question for me. Or would you rather just let criminals run away if they manage to enter a vehicle?

It takes two to tango, and the cop can stop the life-threatening chase at any time, without causing a wreck.

Causing the speeding car to go out of control is also not a great thing for public safety, and does kill and cripple people who are in no way involved in these chases. We have jurisdictions with no-chase rules and it doesn’t seem to cause some hypothesized explosion in crime. It is in-fact ok to not do them, as satisfying as they might feel.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#308

Post by fartfaceMcgee »

nwienert wrote: post #151
Waterluvian wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly. My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate…

Have a EX90 I got on a really great deal, we drove it cross-country and it was mind-blowing how little I had to do. If it didn't make you touch the wheel / pay attention we could have basically done the entire trip without incident minus off-ramps. But there was one thing that was quite bad, similar to yours. While passing a semi I pulled it to the left side and it actually yanked us right so hard and then over-corre…

How you like that car? I test drove an early model that was really a pre-release dealer demo. It was a great ride but I also didnt get to do a whole lot with the sales guy next to me and a tight deadline to get back home.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#309

Post by grep_name »

Waterluvian wrote: post #137
buggy6257 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.

I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly. My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate…

> I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly.

I drive an old beater from 2001, but... I really don't think I understand why people want these in-between not-quite-autopilot features? To me it's like, it would be one thing if you could completely turn your brain off, or look at your phone, or rest. But since you can't, it seems like this stuff makes it more difficult to pay the appropriate amount of attention? For me, if I'm already driving somewhere, and have to pay enough attention to know if an emergency is about to happen, I might as well just do the driving.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#310

Post by dissent »

Does anybody actually find Autopilot to be more than a novelty? Having to look ahead like a robot and keep your hands on the wheel is exactly how you drive without it. It feels like placing trust in the system and accepting risk without any tangible benefit.
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