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What has Docker become?

tuananh.net

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Re: What has Docker become?

#71

Post by embedding-shape »

iberator wrote: post #55
esafak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/containers/podman/blob/main/docs/tutorial...

It's hilarious. Your 'solution' to use docker without root is to make some system changes as root and then use/build docker LOL.

> is to make some system changes as root

Yeah, I mean what do you expect or is the alternative? If you have a process that needs access to something only root typically can do, and the solution been to give that process root so it can do it's job, you usually need root to be able to give that process permission to do that thing without becoming root. Doesn't that make sense? What alternative are you suggesting?

Re: What has Docker become?

#72

Post by exceptione »

szszrk wrote: post #53
koe123 wrote: post #18

Honestly I reach for podman or `nix develop` any chance I get. What is the edge that docker provides these days?

How do you manage your containers in podman declaratively? I tried to substitute docker-compose with Podman and Quadlets on a test server the other day, but was shocked how badly described the overall concept is. Most materials I found glimpsed through ability to run it as root/user and how different that is in configuration, and repeated the same 4-6 commands mantra. Spent a few hours on it and just... failed to run…

quadlets fully depend on systemd doing its work. So, assuming you are running rootless, if you change your quadlets, you will need

  systemctl --user daemon-reload
to let systemd ingest the changes. And, if you have configured to start your container on boot, then still you have to start the container by hand, as you typically won't reboot during development. If you have multiple containers, it might be easiest to have them in one pod, so you only need to start the pod.

I agree that the documentation needs a good tutorial to show the complete concept as a starting point. There are multiple ones though on the internet.

Re: What has Docker become?

#73

Post by gordonhart »

OptionOfT wrote: post #49

I just want to disable "Ask Gordon" in the sidebar. I don't want to see it. My brain works in weird ways. Whenever I see a name for the first time I attach that person to it. Gordon is the character from Half Life. Docker a piece of software. Don't anthropomorphize it.

Eventually there will be enough anthropomorphized pieces of software for everybody to have their "Alexa" moment. Mine came last year (thanks, Docker).

Re: What has Docker become?

#74

Post by nixosbestos »

mg794613 wrote: post #45

"The problem is that Docker the technology became so successful that Docker the company struggled to monetize it. When your core product becomes commoditized and open source, you need to find new ways to add value." No, everything was already open source, other had done it before too, they just made it in a way a lot of "normal" users could start with it, then they waited too long and others created better/their own…

> No, it never was intended like that. That some people build infra/business around it is something completely different, but swarm was never intended to be a kubernetes contender.

That would be news to the then Docker CTO, who reached out to my boss to try to get me in trouble, because I was tweeting away about [cloud company] and investing heavily in Kubernetes. The cognitive dissonance Docker had about Swarm was emblematic of the missteps they took during that era where Mesos, Kube and Swarm all looked like they could be The Winner.

Re: What has Docker become?

#75

Post by supernes »

szszrk wrote: post #53
koe123 wrote: post #18

Honestly I reach for podman or `nix develop` any chance I get. What is the edge that docker provides these days?

How do you manage your containers in podman declaratively? I tried to substitute docker-compose with Podman and Quadlets on a test server the other day, but was shocked how badly described the overall concept is. Most materials I found glimpsed through ability to run it as root/user and how different that is in configuration, and repeated the same 4-6 commands mantra. Spent a few hours on it and just... failed to run…

Podman supports Compose files, so there's that. I've only glimpsed at Quadlets and I agree they seem very esoteric, especially if you're not very well versed in systemd service definitions.

Re: What has Docker become?

#76

Post by dangus »

b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #65
Moto7451 wrote: post #36

One thing that really hurt them from my PoV was how they acted when they changed their licensing structure with respect to revenue generating companies. I’m fine with the idea that licensing Docker and Docker Desktop is a good thing to do. However, I think they just made people distrust their motives with their approached to this. At two places I worked their reps reached out to essentially ensnare the company in a s…

Due to the usual “mid size software company not micromanaging the developers” standard You didn't have a device management system or similar product managing software installs (SCCM in Windows land)? That's table stakes for any admin.

Device management != micromanaging developer workflow.

At my midsize company, our engineers could absolutely say something like “we don’t like Terraform Cloud, we want to switch to OpenTofu and env0” and our management would be okay with it and make it happen as long as we justify the change.

We wouldn’t even really have to ask permission if the change was no cost.

Re: What has Docker become?

#77

Post by embedding-shape »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #68

I switched to Podman on Windows and found it less laggy, and it works fine for local development. I'm sure I'm missing some features, but as Docker continues to struggle to generate revenue, the open-source option will be important to an increasingly large part of the industry. FYI- If I was docker, I'd stand up some bare metal hosting (i.e., a Docker Cloud) designed around making it easier for novice developers to t…

> but the hole in the market is vibe coders who want to launch a web app vibe coded but don't know how to deploy containers to the cloud without a steep learning curve

Is it really a hole? I'm not the target user, but I keep coming across "Build & deploy your own platform/service/application with VibeCodingLikeThereIsNoTomorrow" and similar, maybe new one every week or so.

Re: What has Docker become?

#78

Post by bedstefar »

LtWorf wrote: post #56
rmccue wrote: post #42

> Docker’s journey reads like a startup trying to find product-market fit, except Docker already had product-market fit Strongly disagree. The core Docker technology was an excellent product and as the article says, had a massive impact on the industry. But they never found a market for that technology at any price point that wasn't ~free, so they didn't have PMF. That technology also only took off in the way it did…

The entire technology is a wrapper on setns().

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_Un...

Re: What has Docker become?

#79

Post by embedding-shape »

outcoldman wrote: post #51

If somebody missed it, apple/container is a good replacement for Docker for Mac on macOS. I have been using it for the last 6 months, there are issues, but also team is actively developing it. https://github.com/apple/container

Does that let you build images on a macOS host that works on Windows and Linux too? It doesn't seem to talk about what platform the images support, only where you could run containers.

Re: What has Docker become?

#80

Post by mattwiese »

mg794613 wrote: post #45

"The problem is that Docker the technology became so successful that Docker the company struggled to monetize it. When your core product becomes commoditized and open source, you need to find new ways to add value." No, everything was already open source, other had done it before too, they just made it in a way a lot of "normal" users could start with it, then they waited too long and others created better/their own…

> Their behaviour has been more akin to a non-profit. Great for us, not so great for them in the long run.

This is particularly amusing when considering they helped start the Open Container Initiative with others back in 2015.

What if Docker "the company" was just a long con to use VC bux to fund open source? I say mostly in jest.

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