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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

e360.yale.edu

431–440 of 809 posts

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#431

Curious if this will eventually change China's calculus with regards to Russia. If Europe is a big customer for Chinese exports, and Russia is antagonizing, it seems like China would have an incentive to put pressure on Russia. It already seems like Russia is positioned to be completely subservient to China in the future.

> If Europe is a big customer for Chinese exports, and Russia is antagonizing, it seems like China would have an incentive to put pressure on Russia. China wants Russia to at least keep the Ukraine war going, if not eventually win the darn thing. Russia winning (or getting away with an armistice that lets them keep Crimea and Donbas) means a precedence China has for a land-grab of its own - obviously Taiwan, but othe…

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi visted Europe and openly said to Kaja Kallas, the European Union's foreign-policy chief and other EU ministers: the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) does not want to see Russia defeated in Ukraine, fearing that the U.S. would then shift its full attention toward Beijing.

https://www.economist.com/international/2025/10/28/china-is-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyxk4ywppzo

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're making decisions based on their economic reality not sacrificing for environmental principles You don't know this, and to some degree likely cannot know this.

At an individual level? Agreed. But at a national level the data is compelling. I'm convinced by the Environmental Kuznets Curve.

> But at a national level the data is compelling. I'm convinced by the Environmental Kuznets Curve.

Which data do you find compelling?

For people who don't know the Environmental Kuznets Curve is basically the hypothesis that as economies grow past a certain they naturally start to cause less environmental damage.

As far as I can tell the main empirical evidence in favour of this is the fact that some western countries have managed to maintain economic growth whilst making reductions to their carbon emissions. This has, of course, partially been driven by offshoring especially polluting industries, but also as a result of technological developments like renewable energy, and BEVs.

On the other hand, taking a global sample it's still rather clear that there's a strong correlation between wealth and carbon emissions, both at the individual scale and at the level of countries.

It's also clear that a lot of the gains that have been made in, say, Europe have been low-hanging fruit that won't be easy to repeat. For example migrating off coal power has a huge impact, but going from there to a fully clean grid is a larger challenge.

We also know that there are a bunch of behaviours that come with wealth which have a disproportionately negative effect on the environment. For example, rich people (globally) consume more meat, and take more flights. Those are both problems without clear solutions.

(FWIW I agree that solar power is somewhat regressive, but just for the normal "Vimes Boots Theory" reasons that anyone who is able to install solar will save money in the medium term. That requires the capital for the equipment — which is rapidly getting cheaper — but also the ability to own land or a house to install the equipment on. The latter favours the already well off. There are similar problems with electric cars having higher upfront costs but lower running costs. The correct solution is not to discourage people from using things, but to take the cost of being poor into account in other areas of public policy).

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#433

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

“Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians.”

I think a big part of why the US GDP is so high is that a lot of things are just f…ing expensive. Education, health care, solar, restaurants and so on. You have to actively resist the “usual” lifestyle or you end up in a sea of debt.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If even a Democratically-led California is doing this, how can you point fingers at just the GOP? It's endemic to the system, and not restricted to just one party.

Republicans are always trying to increase and protect oil subsidizes, cheer "drill baby drill", and have social media tools peddling their bs who are funded by foreign influence campaigns. The Democats may not be perfect, but they are much more likely to cut oil subsidies or at least subsidize solar and other renewables to balance. This is especially true as the next generation takes over by primarying the tepid foss…

Fly over Texas and the California and compare the number of solar and wind installations you see.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because net metering is a transfer from people who can’t afford solar to the rich people who can. https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2024/04/22/californias-ex...

Which is true. But it's a rug pull for people who spent money on their panels expecting an RoI. Were existing installations grandfathered in?

Solar has become all about ROI these days just like home ownership has become an investment.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#437

The most underreported part of this story is the battery piece at the end. Batteries are beginning to displace natural gas in evening peak hours - that's the exact window where solar critics have long argued renewables fall short. If this trend accelerates (and battery prices are dropping faster than most models predicted), the "intermittency problem" starts looking more like a solvable engineering challenge than a f…

The problem with solar isn't the night. Getting enough batteries to cover that is totally doable. The issue is the winter. And not even because of fewer daylight hours - on sunny winter days there is usually still a good amount of solar. The problem is its often very cloudy in the winter. In the UK in winter we regularly have periods of 5 cloudy days in a row where solar output is virtually zero. I don't know what th…

Regarding long term storage keep an eye on the UK's Cap and Floor scheme which offers guaranteed revenues to long term storage technologies [1].

Page 7 of https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-09/LDES%20... lists the technology types of the project applications. The majority are Li-Ion BESS, but there are also other battery chemistries and Liquid/Compress Air Storage

1. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-release/super-battery-project...

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. But there are poor people in Canada, and forcing them to pay more money (and slightly lowering their own quality of life) so that wealthier Canadians can install solar panels is, at least, a debatable policy.

Does Canada not have progressive taxation? How do poor people pay more than rich people? To be clear, I don't think rooftop solar subsidies are the best use of government money either. Governments should subsidize utility-scale solar, EVs, efficient buildings, and mass transit. They should focus on cheaper and more efficient permitting, and better grids.

> Does Canada not have progressive taxation? How do poor people pay more than rich people?

It’s not that they’re paying more than rich people. It’s that even with progressive taxation, tax(everything the government currently spends money on) < tax(current spending + solar subsidies). That is to say… giving solar subsidies to rich people causes the tax paid by everyone to increase. Those making more money pay a larger fraction of the increase because of progressive taxation but everyone who is paying taxes pays incrementally more when the government spends more money.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can skip paying those, if you stop living in society, many done that before, and it is still possible. Actually, generally speaking this is almost certainly not possible for more than short periods of time.

It certainly is possible, people do it all the time, in various countries. Most of the time we call them "homeless", but also there are people who literally set up camp in the forest then stay there, it isn't unheard of. The book "The Stranger in the Woods" is one such case, about a man who lived in the woods for 27 years by himself. That said, it isn't easy, and it's harder in some countries than others, but I'd sti…

Nothing like the exception for proving the rule ...

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#440
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

450W-500W solar panels are as low as 52€ here in Germany if you buy a couple of them. Batteries are also very affordable and I look forward to them getting a lot cheaper soon, thanks to Sodium-Ion.

The price of panels is falling so fast I don’t think anyone truly understands. I paid nearly double that for our 450w panels 18 months ago.

People keep saying that prices of panels keep falling, and yet any time I look at getting panels on my roof the price is the same $3/W it has been for 10 years already.
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