Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 809 posts

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#181

Post by henry2023 »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however.

You probably wouldn’t. I hear more people complaining about hypothetical government spending than actual government spending.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#182

Post by kwanbix »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

Yeah, truly awful. Unlimited electricity that barely contaminates, and at the lowest possible cost for everyone. Just terrible.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#183

Post by standeven »

slavik81 wrote: post #17
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

The Greener Homes Grant and Greener Homes Loan you describe have ended, but the 160% tarrif on imported solar panels remains. Solar prices in Canada are still quite expensive, and regulations are needlessly strict. Solar fencing is illegal in many jurisdictions, balcony solar is illegal everywhere, and utility-scale solar is effectively prohibited in the regions with the most sunlight. Solar production in Canada will…

Some provincial grants remain ($5k in BC last time I checked), but yes - Canada can and should do more. Balcony solar seems like such an easy win. Hopefully tariffs get dropped now that we’re talking to China again. And federal Liberals could force municipalities and provinces to reduce some of the red tape surrounding solar installations. Come on Canada, unlocking clean energy shouldn’t have to be a fight!

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#184

Post by jeorb »

testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

The quotes for solar on my home in the US ranged between $40,000 (local company) and $120,000 (Tesla). How did you get solar installed for only $13,000?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#185

Post by triceratops »

DetectDefect wrote: post #117
microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should definitely think about the children when choosing coal/gasoline vs. full electric. In fact we did and we have an electric car, replaced our gas cooking top by induction, and our gas-based heating by a heat pump. Last time I boarded an airplane was in 2019 I think.

> In fact we did and we have an electric car, replaced our gas cooking top by induction, and our gas-based heating by a heat pump. Last time I boarded an airplane was in 2019 I think. Fantastic virtue signaling. Of course totally devoid of any mention about the individuals picking raw materials for those electric car components though, since they're not "our" children.

> Of course totally devoid of any mention about the individuals picking raw materials for those electric car components

You think elves drill oil and mine coal?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#186

Post by _aavaa_ »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #175
munk-a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that on-roof-solar helps (as it becomes widespread) mitigate the growing need for additional grid capacity. Canada is a big country and, outside the major cities, upgrading grid capacity is quite expensive per capita. It's a win-win in Canada, investing in self-sufficiency while reducing the maintenance burden of infrastructure.

It may slightly help with capacity, but it causes bigger problems financially. Even if a home uses next to no power, it still must be connected to the grid . The total number of such homes ends up meaning a lot of power lines, transformer stations, monitoring equipment, and people to do all the work. If you have all of that expense, and suddenly people have solar panels so pay $0 for an energy bill - do you see the p…

The term you're circling is "grid defection".

> must be connected to the grid.

That's a legislative problem. If a home can prove it can produce enough electricity for itself, it should not be forced to be connected.

> You can 'fix' this by making it so every home has a fixed 'connection cost' and then a smaller 'usage cost' on top

A lot of places already do this.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#187

Post by sneak »

embedding-shape wrote: post #179
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

There is nothing more unjust than forcing someone to buy something they do not want simply because you think it would be good for them.

> Seems like a no brainer deal

This is opinion, not fact. I happen to share your opinion, but enshrining opinions in law is almost always going to violate someone’s consent.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#188

Post by triceratops »

lostlogin wrote: post #93
DetectDefect wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven’t touched ours, they are clean and have been going fine with zero maintenance, though admittedly it’s only been a year. > Where are you getting this maintenance schedule from? The solar panel owner does not know the required maintenance they are now permanently responsible for. Ibid, your honor.

They are clean, I can see that and could wipe them if I needed to. The power output is the same. Where are you getting this maintenance schedule of yours from?

> Where are you getting this maintenance schedule of yours from?

Their "Anti-Solar Talking Points" handbook from Big Oil.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#189

Post by rngfnby »

boringg wrote: post #38
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

What? No Canada isn't cheap solar power -- last I checked rooftop ballasted solar is a 12-14 year payback on avoided costs. Inverter will go beforehand and that excludes any op costs. 8k$ free loan doesn't really provide as much value as you would think. FWIW - I am all for solar but selling rooftop solar in canada as cheap and no-brainer is false. 3-4 year payback would be a no brainer. 8-13 year payback with an inv…

Largely agree, with one big nitpick.

Canada is a massive exporter of electricity to the USA. The more clean energy CND produces the more there is to displace North East's coal.

Of course, solar on Canadians' roof is a joke. A proper regulatory regime would encourage solar in Arizona and encourage lettuce Canada; not vice versa.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#190

Post by direwolf20 »

altern8 wrote: post #160
direwolf20 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can sell more oil and at a higher price, you get more money.

OK, but how, they lobby to pass laws against coal and nuclear, so that you burn more oil..?

Yes, and against bike lanes so more people have to drive, and against subsidies for public transport, and against public transport entirely, and so on.
Post reply on HN