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In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

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Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#171

Post by amiga386 »

fullstop wrote: post #151
ricardo81 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is blessed with cheap energy, the abundance of hydro surely helps to bridge any intermittency other renewables have. I lived there 10 years back, your energy is less than half the cost of mine in Scotland. In Scotland's case we're part of the UK and the rest of the UK is less blessed with the geography for hydro. The incumbent Scottish government also has an anti stance to nuclear. I hope the incentives for cl…

Everything that I learned about energy in Scotland comes from Still Game , so I must ask -- how many bars?

"One bar's plenty!"

"Victor, it's gratis, get the three bloody bars on."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUMCO8cFrPU

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#172

Post by mrweasel »

jhrmnn wrote: post #19
raincole wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Europe were a big customer for Russia energy, it seems like Russia would have an incentive to not antagonize it. Oh, see how well it went.

Europe was a bit customer for Russia energy, and Russia invaded an EU neighbor nonetheless. After which it stopped being the customer. So it seems like that incentive didn't really work.

Had Russia indeed invaded Ukraine in three days, I don't think the EU today would have been any less dependent on Russians energy than in 2022.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#173

Post by apexalpha »

testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan.

€13.000 for this still seems expensive.

Are there tariffs on Chinese PV in Canada?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#174

Post by mekdoonggi »

WarmWash wrote: post #150
mekdoonggi wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The semiconductors are propping up the AI zietgeist in the US, but is that true globally? Why would Canada/Brazil/Europe care about Taiwan? China will still sell them the chips. The only one who would really care is the US. So by taking Taiwan, China blows up the US stock market and takes control of the chips.

Every country on Earth benefits from the chips that come from Taiwan, and not just the governments, the people using pretty much anything that does computation. That includes China.

Yes I am aware. Which means that if China takes over political control of Taiwan and says, "We will still sell chips just like normal to everyone except the US".

Would the rest of the world decide to go to war with China for the political freedom of Taiwan?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#175

Post by Night_Thastus »

munk-a wrote: post #8
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

And that on-roof-solar helps (as it becomes widespread) mitigate the growing need for additional grid capacity. Canada is a big country and, outside the major cities, upgrading grid capacity is quite expensive per capita. It's a win-win in Canada, investing in self-sufficiency while reducing the maintenance burden of infrastructure.

It may slightly help with capacity, but it causes bigger problems financially. Even if a home uses next to no power, it still must be connected to the grid. The total number of such homes ends up meaning a lot of power lines, transformer stations, monitoring equipment, and people to do all the work.

If you have all of that expense, and suddenly people have solar panels so pay $0 for an energy bill - do you see the problem? The actual cost of fuel/generation is very small compared to the fixed costs.

The more people use solar, the more in the red the utility becomes. You can 'fix' this by making it so every home has a fixed 'connection cost' and then a smaller 'usage cost' on top, but that destroys the incentive for solar panels - they'd never break even for the average buyer.

Solar is great, fantastic even. But it should be done centrally, or people will have to get used to the idea that they will never pay themselves off and are just doing it for the environment.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#176

Post by jl6 »

kokey wrote: post #47

Every time, over the years, that there has been some kind of headline saying renewables have overtaken fossil fuels, when you look at it a bit more closely there is always a big 'but'. For example, it was compared to coal (not taking into account electricity from gas), or it was for one day, or it was a percentage of new installations, or it excludes winter, includes nuclear etc. This time, however, it looks like it'…

The “but” this time is that we are talking about electricity demand, not total energy demand. Electrification of heating is the next big milestone.

It’s still a great trend.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#177

Post by testing22321 »

pear01 wrote: post #163
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

US also tariffs Chinese EV makers out of the US market so they can keep peddling the fiction that EV sucks or China can't build anything we can't. This has the same corrupt nexus with the anti-renewable mantra. Essentially subsidize oil and gas under the table and punish renewables then tell the electorate that the latter is worse than the former. Instead of giving Americans free choice American automakers pay Americ…

I’m really happy Canada just dropped the Chinese EV tariffs.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#178

Post by _aavaa_ »

testing22321 wrote: post #170
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. As a non car owner are you annoyed everyone gets subsidized roads? Are you annoyed corn farmers get subsidies for growing corn? Would you be annoyed if people got subsidized life saving health care? It feels like the US can’t have nice things because people are hell bent on others not having nice things. What a shame.

> As a non car owner are you annoyed everyone gets subsidized roads?

Yes, and people should be annoyed by this given the underfunding, poor urban planning, and outright hostility by many local governments against anything that dares encroach on the sanctity of car culture.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#179

Post by embedding-shape »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #152
testing22321 wrote: post #4

Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. It makes 7.72Mwh per year, worth $1000. Tight valley, tons of snow. We put that on the loan for 8 years, then get $1000 per year free money for 20 years or so. Biggest no brainer of all time. Dad in Victoria Australia just got 1…

>Solar prices in the US are criminal, protecting oil and gas who bought all the politicians. >Canada here. 7.6kw on our roof for $0 out of pocket thanks to $5k grant and $8k interest free loan. This very well may be true, but taken at face value Canada seems to be paying you around $7k to install solar panels on your roof (that's 8k interest free loan is losing out to inflation + any interest it would have earned). D…

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however.

What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there.

I'm a renter, been all my life, I'd be happy to pay more in taxes if it means more solar panels for everyone except me. But I also feel the same about elder care, health care and a bunch of other things, do you feel the same for those things too, or this is specifically about solar or owning vs renting?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#180

Post by testing22321 »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #175
munk-a wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that on-roof-solar helps (as it becomes widespread) mitigate the growing need for additional grid capacity. Canada is a big country and, outside the major cities, upgrading grid capacity is quite expensive per capita. It's a win-win in Canada, investing in self-sufficiency while reducing the maintenance burden of infrastructure.

It may slightly help with capacity, but it causes bigger problems financially. Even if a home uses next to no power, it still must be connected to the grid . The total number of such homes ends up meaning a lot of power lines, transformer stations, monitoring equipment, and people to do all the work. If you have all of that expense, and suddenly people have solar panels so pay $0 for an energy bill - do you see the p…

That is an interesting theory, but it doesn’t work like that in reality.

Australia is giving free power to everyone during the day because they have so much.

More solar is a great thing.

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