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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#561

Post by jkaplowitz »

erispoe wrote: post #405
direwolf20 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example to make sure that a company can be held responsible when it breaks the law. This is the reason Germany hates small companies. Germany wants you to be a sole trader with no liability shield. Some people hack the system by registering a company in another EU state such as Lithuania.

That's not a hack, if you operate the entity from Germany, it must be registered in Germany. It's often touted as a tax loophole, but it's not. Tax authorities do not care about you unless you actually make money, then they will come after you.

Would the liability shield not generally apply to a foreign entity registered in Germany? Sure there may be special rules for non-compliance with specific tax obligations, but I'm talking about for general liability for other purposes, like a contract signed by the entity where no personal guarantee was given, or a harm caused by the corporation where the owner was not personally involved or negligent in causing the harm.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#562

Post by jandrewrogers »

friendzis wrote: post #445
trueismywork wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups but definition have no revenue. Its also a chicken and egg problem. Having a revenue means having a company and vice versa. Unless you're in very old fields, which explains lack of new tech companies in Germany

> Its also a chicken and egg problem. Having a revenue means having a company and vice versa. How would you pay your employees making the product/service that will eventually bring in the revenue? That's what "own capital" is for. Typical LLC/JSC will have at the very least one employee -- the CEO -- and that will bring one minimum wage worth of expenses (sort of). There are legal entity types that can function witho…

In the US, it is common for a small startup company to have no employees. Your role and title with a company is separate from your official employment status. This is where concepts like "sweat equity" come from. You can be an owner and work on a company without being an employee or receiving any compensation. Creating a company in the US comes with no real obligations to do something with it.

This is beneficial. It allows small companies to bootstrap without incurring the complexity and cost of having employees until they have enough revenue or capital to justify that expense.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#563

Post by smhg »

embedding-shape wrote: post #415
alibarber wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean that the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. The company lives in Estonia. Yeah if they are taking income personally locally then that should go to the country of residence, as is normal. But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable, or what they consider 'pro…

> the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. Yes, this again makes sense to me. You have a company in Estonia, so that pays taxes in Estonia. You work for this company from Spain, so you pay taxes in Spain. Doesn't it work the same elsewhere? What other ways could it work, assuming we want taxes somewhere ? > But then if what Estonia considers acceptabl…

> As long as I don't get taxed on the same money in both countries, I don't see the issue here.

That's exactly one of the current issues. The general rule is something like 'taxation happens where the company creates value'. Registration in Estonia just means taxation starts in Estonia. But at any point can Spain say 'we consider this a Spanish company'. After Spain taxes too, you can request a tax refund in Estonia. That's assuming they agree. Both countries will only communicate with the company, not with each other.

So while double taxation treaties are great, they are not doing much upfront in this respect.

The above is about company taxation, not personal taxes. For SMB that line is often confusing.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#564

Post by yencabulator »

lazide wrote: post #518
embedding-shape wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we've realized that, that's why we keep iterating on the union :)

My point is rather than almost anything can be made smooth if you have enough $$ pointed at making it so. One of the biggest issues with small economies is that they don’t have the capital spent to make it easy to do things yet; which is friction that helps keep them small.

This is so ridiculously contrary to a Northern European existence that it's just funny. US is ridiculously more bureaucratic with lots of back office papers shuffled around by humans. US tax filing is hard to even describe to someone who never lived there.

Official procedures can be made smooth by valuing them being smooth.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#566

Post by dpc050505 »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #427
Bewelge wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here. That's not true. What crazy documentation do you require? An ID, proof of residence, and a business plan? (edit: you don't even need a business plan) That being said, everything about the process is annoying and you always have the feeling that you're doing something wrong or forgetting something. Together with some ridiculously slow processing times, it's the perfect combination to frustrate you and I'm…

> ... and a business plan? Why would the government need a business plan? It's none of their business what you want to do with your company besides a general description as "software development" or "consulting services" or whatever.

Several sectors of economic activities have the potential for atrocious externalities and it's absolutely the government's business to know about these and make sure that you're following regulation to minimize these externalities. When you make your employees the neighbours sick (or straight up kill them) it's an enormous failure on the part of government. It's easy to be oblivious to that when you only think about software.

Exhibit A: https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/battery-facility-acc...

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#567

Post by Kim_Bruning »

tga wrote: post #530
alibarber wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they mean that the Estonian company they run now has to file tax returns and pay taxes not only to Estonia but also Spain. The company lives in Estonia. Yeah if they are taking income personally locally then that should go to the country of residence, as is normal. But then if what Estonia considers acceptable standards for tax reporting differs from what Spain considers acceptable, or what they consider 'pro…

Indeed, the current state of affairs is rather sad. To employ a regular (non-management) employee in Spain (and it applies anywhere else in Europe), an Estonian company would to at least have a local address, then register and maintain regular contact with several authorities there (chamber of commerce, social administration, tax office). The bureaucratic overhead makes it practically impossible to have employees acr…

Now move to an actual border area. Thanks to Schengen you can travel freely back and forth, sure, but your headaches compound.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#568

Post by ragall »

wolvoleo wrote: post #470
galangalalgol wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free healthcare and social welfare I'm in agreement on. But why does at will employment need to conflict with that? The problems of wage values, food and shelter, and healthcare can be handled completely independently of employment. If someone feels it is too easy to do nothing without requiring employment to gain some of those benefits, you can have the government as an employer of last resort. But making it easy fo…

At will employment is something we'll never accept here. We don't need the threat of having nothing from one day to the next. It's good for billionaires but not for actual people that matter. Running a business is not something everyone should have to do anyway. It's good if it's hard. That keeps the cowboys at bay. I would never ever want to own a business. I don't need that uncertainty. I just want a stable wage. T…

Various places in Europe already have what amounts to at-will employment. There are exemptions for companies under a certain number of employees (e.g. 25 in Italy). There's a wide use of fixed-term contracts (6/12 months). Many work through agencies, which means they can be "fired" with a few weeks' notice.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#569

Post by wicharek »

academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

In my experience it is very easy and pretty cheap to start a LLC in Poland.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#570

Post by [deleted] »

f_devd wrote: post #444
Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> finding a representative of a trade union > how much their cut will be Did you have any employees yet? I guess so. Isn't it the employees' responsibility pay for their union membership?

> Isn't it the employees' responsibility pay for their union membership? No, contributions are handled by the employer/company

[deleted]
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