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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#491

Post by [deleted] »

alibarber wrote: post #459
embedding-shape wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the Estonian company is supposed to be considered a separate legal person based in Estonia, it shouldn't have to deal with anything Spanish. If the Estonian company has employed a person located in Spain, shouldn't the laws of both countries apply to this employment then? The employee lives in Spain, so obviously Spanish labor laws should be followed, and the company is in Estonia, so obviously Estonian law shou…

For labour - the laws of where that labour is actually being conducted are the ones that are followed. Spanish prosecutors can for sure bring a case against an Estonian company if they are not. In theory at least. But for company tax law, that company is a tax resident in Estonia, not Spain. Also, we harmonise laws such as traffic laws (for example, in Finland, all solid yellow central lines were painted white) so th…

[deleted]

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#492

Post by alibarber »

embedding-shape wrote: post #480
alibarber wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For labour - the laws of where that labour is actually being conducted are the ones that are followed. Spanish prosecutors can for sure bring a case against an Estonian company if they are not. In theory at least. But for company tax law, that company is a tax resident in Estonia, not Spain. Also, we harmonise laws such as traffic laws (for example, in Finland, all solid yellow central lines were painted white) so th…

> where that labour is actually being conducted are the ones that are followed. So in that particular case, would be in both Estonia and Spain, just so we're on the same side? > But for company tax law, that company is a tax resident in Estonia, not Spain. Indeed, and I don't think the Estonian company would pay Spanish taxes, correct? Unless they have a presence (subsidiary for example) in Spain, then they would hav…

> So in that particular case, would be in both Estonia and Spain, just so we're on the same side?

It sounds like we are. If labour is being conducted in both of those countries then yes. And the same anywhere else where someone might join the party.

And on the tax thing - yes again, but what I see happening now in European countries, is that, if a person of significant control resides in another country, then that other country considers the company a tax resident of that country too.

E.g: I live in Finland. If I were to open an Estonian company and have it literally do nothing all year, not only would I have to file a company report in Estonia, (fine, that's why I chose to start a company there, perhaps it's really easy) but also file a company report in Finland as if the company were a Finnish company.

I think this is an overreach of bureaucracy and adds a friction to entrepreneurship. Others might think differently - which I completely accept. Unfortunately for me, I do not think that this initiative here will change this, much. Perhaps I am mistaken. Either way, it is in the right direction and I support it.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#493

Post by pdabbadabba »

jurschreuder wrote: post #450

People are completely overreacting how much regulation there is in Europe here. There is more regulations against monopolies and USA BigTech is always crying about that and spreading propaganda about that. But starting a startup is way cheaper in Europe you won't need funding like in the USA even.

Then why do you think virtually all of the most successful tech startups are U.S. companies? (Excluding Asia, for the purposes of this discussion.) Is it just Silicon Valley network effects?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#494

Post by melenaboija »

academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

I am a European living in the US and my god I am tired of hearing this over and over again. If your biggest hurdle to start a company is the paperwork you’ll have to do for one week, you better think of something else.

And yes, there are other way bigger issues in my opinion, such as financing and even social support.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#495

Post by egorfine »

martin_a wrote: post #395
seec wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is possibly the greatest bullshit I've read today. Greetings from Germany!

You should bear in mind that thinking of an IT specialist or a software developer is very much uncommon among population. As developers we tend to think alike worldwide. But walk out the door and ask ten (older) German people whether they would prefer to use government email-like service instead of paper mails, and see what answer comes to the top.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#496

Post by direwolf20 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #391
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

> It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. Totally. One of the biggest and most horrific aspect of it is the KYC/AML. We regularly read articles explaining that drugs are so out of hand that several EU countries, like Belgium, are becoming narco-states: these are front page, major newspaper, stories. We also read articles explaining that cash bills from petty drug dealing…

As a reminder, KYC/AML is imposed by the USA on every other country in order to access the USD banking system, and the USA uses any excuse to cut off entities it doesn't like.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#497

Post by egorfine »

bombcar wrote: post #418
kakacik wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucracy is a beast with its own life, it doesn't care what regular people want. In fact most folks' requirements go directly against objectives of this beast, since people want it as small and as weak as possible, while beast need to be fed and feels internally it needs to be strong. Anything not related to gaining or maintaining strength is antagonist.

And even if that's not the case, the group of "entrepreneurs" is so small compared to the voting population at large, that they won't even notice if they crush it entirely into paste.

Exactly this. Common folks like "tough on crime" postures of politicians and never consider nuance, which is everything. Yeah, crush them, those white-collared fraudsters.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#498

Post by nickff »

melenaboija wrote: post #494
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

I am a European living in the US and my god I am tired of hearing this over and over again. If your biggest hurdle to start a company is the paperwork you’ll have to do for one week, you better think of something else. And yes, there are other way bigger issues in my opinion, such as financing and even social support.

If the paperwork ended after one week, it wouldn’t be so bad, but it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#499

Post by direwolf20 »

erispoe wrote: post #405
direwolf20 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example to make sure that a company can be held responsible when it breaks the law. This is the reason Germany hates small companies. Germany wants you to be a sole trader with no liability shield. Some people hack the system by registering a company in another EU state such as Lithuania.

That's not a hack, if you operate the entity from Germany, it must be registered in Germany. It's often touted as a tax loophole, but it's not. Tax authorities do not care about you unless you actually make money, then they will come after you.

Which law says it must be registered in Germany?

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#500

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

tokai wrote: post #455
jurschreuder wrote: post #450

People are completely overreacting how much regulation there is in Europe here. There is more regulations against monopolies and USA BigTech is always crying about that and spreading propaganda about that. But starting a startup is way cheaper in Europe you won't need funding like in the USA even.

HN users has the wildest takes on Europe. Often completely made up, or something specific to one country made out to be true on the whole continent.

It's pretty funny. Europeans get so angry at US people claiming to have seen "Europe" when they've been in London, Paris and Rome, and yet they (we) do the same thing on lots of other topics.

I think it's just human nature, tbh.

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