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EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

eu-inc.org

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Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#221

Post by eclat »

krisknez wrote: post #202

I’m from Croatia, and starting and running a company here is expensive. Estonia makes it much easier, so you might think: why not open a company in Estonia? But here is a problem: If your clients are in Croatia and you have a Croatian company, you don’t have to charge VAT if you earn under 60k per year. But if your company is in Estonia, you are required to charge VAT even if you earn under 60k.

Estonian fiscal law doesn’t apply if your company operates from Croatia. The only reason you can’t do this in practice is because you’ll have a hard time finding a Croatian accountant willing to work with your Estonian company. That’s something EU-inc aims to address.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#222

Post by lnsru »

jcmartinezdev wrote: post #111
lnsru wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is always the same: do you really need UG/GmbH at the beginning? It’s typical rookie mistake. I did it too, sold the company for 1€ to some shady people at the end. Gewerbe with 40000€ in the company’s account does not have the problems anymore. And the expensive tax consultants are just another cost of doing business in Germany. Ok, the quality of Finanzamt clerks varies heavily depending on location. C…

Maybe I should have taken another road considering the size of my operations, unfortunately I was wrongly advised when starting up, I spent 1k with a Steuerberatung for advice on what was the proper structure for me, and still… I think they just adviced me the option that was gonna cost me the most to operate. Lesson learned I guess!

I visited many lectures about business at the university, participated at Munich business plan competitions and all the time holding structure GmbH owning other GmbH was the best solution. The reality is that this is best solution for medium enterprises, for the bootstrapped start it does not matter. If I can’t take off as crappy Gewerbe the expensive holding will not help me either. Learning was not free.

My feeling about tax consultants in Germany is that most of them are scammers helping lazy people to enter mandatory things in corresponding Elster fields. The ones with knowledge are super rare. Better ask AI and then verify the information, that’s cheaper and makes more sense.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#223

Post by whynotmaybe »

egorfine wrote: post #187
academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

> My worry is that the end result will require Yes it will. The vast army of bureaucrats in any country does whatever is in their power to make sure their specific requirements are included into the process. What do you mean they would like to open a 3D printing workshop with no Environmental Impact Study done?!

You know that EU bureaucrats do what each country want them to do right?

Each time the Commission comes with a new rule, most countries agree with it. And if its an "unpopular", the game for each gov is to blame the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromyth

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6481969.stm

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#224

Post by embedding-shape »

whateverboat wrote: post #213
te_chris wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly, this is one of the greatest losses of the UK leaving. For both parties. Advising EU startups on where to incorporate that isn’t London could be so much simpler.

What about Luxembourg?

If you have to setup a company today, and want the easiest path to EU-wide SaaS, probably Estonia is the way to go, very easy for EU citizens (don't know how the experience would be from outside, if it's even possible).

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#225

Post by mmunj »

krisknez wrote: post #202

I’m from Croatia, and starting and running a company here is expensive. Estonia makes it much easier, so you might think: why not open a company in Estonia? But here is a problem: If your clients are in Croatia and you have a Croatian company, you don’t have to charge VAT if you earn under 60k per year. But if your company is in Estonia, you are required to charge VAT even if you earn under 60k.

>But if your company is in Estonia, you are required to charge VAT even if you earn under 60k.

Is this not simply because companies in Estonia enter VAT at 40k per year (rather than 60k)?

(and IIRC Croatia was also at 40k a year ago, now is at 60k with some politicians trying to raise the entry to 100k)

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#226

Post by eclat »

seydor wrote: post #178

I would like to see the details on this. The EU has alredy jurisdictions that make it "too easy" to run a company and others that make it exceedingly difficult, and the two are in competition. It's one thing to start a company in cyprus, another to start in Germany. TBH I doubt it's going to be possible with current status. Where will an EU-inc be based, Luxembourg? and how would that be different from any other Lux…

It’s the 28th regime. Look up societas europaea.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#227

Post by logicchains »

academia_hack wrote: post #168

It's inordinately difficult and expensive to start an LLC or SA in some EU countries. It's even difficult and expensive to _stop_ an LLC and dissolve it. Huge amount of risk and cost on founders and a huge distraction from running a business. I think that EU-Inc _could_ be an improvement, but it needs to avoid the committee laundry list of ideas/requirements/form fields that plagues the EU startup ecosystem. My worry…

>My worry is that the end result will require notarized declarations of honour, financial plans stretching decades into the future, 30 page business plan documents, reams of corporate governance documents, and tons of other nonsense to protect against the perceived risk that someone who failed at starting a business once fails a second time.

That sounds like a really good use for AI.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#228

Post by oellegaard »

I have seen promotion of this idea multiple times but every time I read about it I fail to understand the gains.

I’m based in Denmark and have incorporated multiple companies. It is very easy and digital and costs very little, even if you get a lawyer to do it for you.

Maybe the issue is a few member states that are behind on digitalization?

In my experience EU is better at setting the guidelines and then the member states can implement the details themselves. When they try to push things it becomes bureaucratic - just look at the cookie law and GDPR. Both great ideas but overly complicated.

Re: EU–INC – A new pan-European legal entity

#230

Post by tadzik_ »

gpjanik wrote: post #205
GardenLetter27 wrote: post #184

Unfortunately this does not override employment and tax laws - so you still cannot hire someone as an FTE in Paris, from a startup in Berlin for example (without them being a freelancer, or you opening a payroll / tax office in France). But hopefully we can move towards that - standardised taxation (especially VAT and corporation tax would help massively here), the abolition of notaries, standardised requirements for…

You can, Deel etc. make this pretty easy.

Deel is one of the reasons why my policy for working for foreign companies is "B2B or I'm fucking off". Everyone I know (employees/contractors using it, not the other side) who went for it hated and regretted it.

Singling out Deel because you brought it up (and I ragequit after reading their "deel" and consulting it with a local lawyer), but I have the exact same story for every employer of record I've been involved with here in EU, and I don't know a single person who's been happy with them either (again, all employees/contractors).

I understand that it's comfortable and convenient for the employer (presumably, or at least the perspective of outsourcing this and reducing liability outweighs everything else), but these companies absolutely do not know what they're doing wrt local laws.

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