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So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

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Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#281

Post by triceratops »

immibis wrote: post #193
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental question that needs answering is: should we actually prevent minors below the age of X from accessing social media site Y? Is the harm done significant enough to warrant providing parents with a technical solution for giving them control over which sites their X-aged child signs up, and a solution that like actually works? Obviously pinky-swear "over 13?" checkboxes don't work, so this currently does…

Can we actually prevent children under 16 from buying beer?

We can't prevent all children from getting beer, but we can prevent most of them without compromising any adult's privacy. And everyone is ok with that state of affairs and the trade-offs. No one's calling for internet-connected beer cans that make you take a selfie before you can open them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#283

Post by account42 »

triceratops wrote: post #281
immibis wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we actually prevent children under 16 from buying beer?

We can't prevent all children from getting beer, but we can prevent most of them without compromising any adult's privacy. And everyone is ok with that state of affairs and the trade-offs. No one's calling for internet-connected beer cans that make you take a selfie before you can open them. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46447282

> we can prevent most of them without compromising any adult's privacy

But we don't. Even with in person age/ID checks the clerk will often enter some of that data into the store's system and then who knows what happens with it.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#284

Post by account42 »

mckn1ght wrote: post #205
anal_reactor wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's never been about porn. By marking certain part of the internet "adult-only" you imply that the rest is "family-friendly" and parents can feel less bad about themselves leaving their children with iPads rather than actually parenting them, which is exactly what Big Tech wants for obvious reasons. If I had a child I'd rather have it watch porn than Cocomelon, which has been scientifically developed so that it turn…

> If I had a child I'd rather have it watch porn than Cocomelon As a parent that regularly fears who my children will encounter in the world, I’m glad there’s an “if” at the beginning of this sentence.

If your child wants to watch porn, he/she will be able to get it.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#285

Post by account42 »

thewebguyd wrote: post #196
SoftTalker wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be very tough to implement in the US, as proposing any sort of "national ID" is pretty much a nonstarter, at least up to this point. States could do it, and maybe agree on some protocols so that things like privacy-preserving "age verification" could be done. Maybe the feds could push it like they did with speed limits: make federal funding contingent upon adopting e-ID. Would still get a lot of pushback.

The problem with e-ID is its focused on identity verification, not just age verification and that's where the problem lies. We still need the ability to be psuedoanonymous online. We should be able to verify age without divulging any identifying information to the service requesting age verification. An e-ID registry could work on a sort of public/private key system so long as the services requesting informatino from…

It's a problem for you and me, but a feature for those pushing for it.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#286

Post by account42 »

thewebguyd wrote: post #192
idopmstuff wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you suggest they verify age? I am not aware of a good way to do it from a privacy and security perspective.

It doesn't have to be exclusively digital. You can be psuedoanonymous using some form of key as verification. To get a key, you have to present your ID in person at, for example, the social security office or local DOL. All the key does is attest that "this person is over X years old" with no other identifying information associated with it. I think blending in person & digital together is going to be the best way fo…

> with no other identifying information associated with it

Not possible, the key itself becomes identifying information similar to how an IP address + timestamp is identifying information even though their is no information abut you stored in the IP address or timestamp.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#287

Post by account42 »

phatfish wrote: post #208
idopmstuff wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you suggest they verify age? I am not aware of a good way to do it from a privacy and security perspective.

A digital ID, like someone said below. But people (in the UK at least) go mental about that, despite the government already having all the information anyway. Creating a easy way to securely share that information with a 3rd party for online verification is apparently the work of the devil. In the real world you turn up in person with a passport, or maybe use snail mail as a way to verify an address which is hard to…

Making it easier tends to lead to something being required more often so people are right to be wary about that.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#288

Post by account42 »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #178
irusensei wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the way Roblox is doing right now separating the users in age groups just makes it easier for predators to find victim.

Governments and corporations are never interested in protecting children - they don't vote, and they don't have money. So making it "easier for predators to find victims" is not a failure of the policy.

People who do care about their children or children in general do vote though. Not that politicians care that much about what their voters want once elected.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#289

Post by mvandermeulen »

Aurornis wrote: post #161
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental question that needs answering is: should we actually prevent minors below the age of X from accessing social media site Y? Is the harm done significant enough to warrant providing parents with a technical solution for giving them control over which sites their X-aged child signs up, and a solution that like actually works? Obviously pinky-swear "over 13?" checkboxes don't work, so this currently does…

> The fundamental question that needs answering is: should we actually prevent minors below the age of X from accessing social media site Y? I suspect if you ask Hacker News commenters if we should put up any obstacles to accessing social media sites for anyone, a lot of people will tell you yes. The details don't matter. Bashing "social media" is popular here and anything that makes it harder for other people to use…

I would rather parenting be the responsibility of parents and I resent the selfish individuals who wilfully burden others with the various costs associated with their demands for safety from their own choices over taking responsibility for themselves. No impact to others is too great for those who insist anything they don’t wish to be exposed to is dealt with at the societal level.

If an at risk child’s parent is unwilling to do what they believe is the right thing by their child then they have failed the child and need to get a grip - confiscate the device or change the wifi password or sleep with the router under your pillow if you have to it’s really not that hard.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#290

Post by theshrike79 »

cortesoft wrote: post #177
ryandrake wrote: post #27

My kid has recently just quit playing Roblox because of the sketchy facial age check process. She said that her and all her friends know not to ever upload a picture of themselves to the Internet (good job, fellow Other Parents!!) so they're either moving on to other games or just downloading stock photos of people from the internet and uploading those (which apparently works). What a total joke. These companies need…

Having to manage my kids online accounts have been a nightmare. So many different rules, with arbitrary age limits on things that go completely against my own rules for what my kids can do at different ages, with weird methods for linking or verifying or sharing/transferring purchases. I have gotten so frustrated trying to get accounts set up so we can play together.

My favourite is Youtube.

I can get Youtube Family so my kids don't get ads.

But if your kids are under 13, they can't be added to a family account on YT - so they MUST watch the ads.

Can someone explain the logic here?

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