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So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

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Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#171

Post by milkytron »

xmprt wrote: post #143
array_key_first wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to be more comfortable being the problem more often. Even if people actually use these solutions, they're almost always suboptimal anyway. We shouldn't be relying on them the way we do.

Or to flip it on its head, be the solution. If a church or some other activity is requiring Whatsapp, then come up with a better alternative that does more than Whatsapp ever could.

I've tried this. It's hard to get people to switch platforms when they don't perceive any major existing problems with their current platform.

My neighborhood that I'm on the HOA board for has been entirely on a facebook group. When I joined, I made sure that we communicate all necessary communication via email (for others like me not in the group or on FB). I created a website for the neighborhood that does everything the FB group does and more, but people don't see a reason to visit another website when FB has everything they want, so they still only engage on Facebook.

I'm okay with being the problem (green bubbles are a whole nother thing for friends and family), but without sufficient pressure to switch, people generally prefer what they're comfy with.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#172

Post by tzs »

awkward wrote: post #79
cloudfudge wrote: post #60

This makes me wonder if there's a business case for a privacy-preserving identity service which does age verification. Say you have a strong identity provider that you have proven your age to. Just as the 3rd party site could use SSO login from your identity provider, perhaps the identity provider could provide signed evidence to the 3rd party site that asserts "I have verified that this person is age X" but not divu…

The article does go into this and gives lip service to the idea that a secure third party could expose age without exposing identity. Ultimately, there's still the problem that even if point of verification can be done in a zero trust way, you are still entrusting very sensitive information to a third party which is subject to data breach.

If you do it right the only sensitive information exposed to the age gated site is that your age is above their threshold.

The party that actually has to at some point verify who you really are of course has your sensitive information, and there is no obvious way to work around that. However, there is a way to make it so that it doesn't matter.

That is by making them be a party that already has that information. Probably the simplest would be to make it be the same government agency that issues your physical identity documents like passports or drivers licenses. If we don't want it to be a government agency or we want to have competition banks would be a possibility.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#173

Post by iamnothere »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #93
irusensei wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to find the contact for the does-not-imply-causation dept but I think I lost my slashdot account in 2004.

Nobody studying this issue, from the UK government to independent researchers to NGOs, says this anymore. PornHub in legal filings never uses this argument, but instead focuses on rights to expression rather than dispute the claim. The causation is clear, documented, proven. Increased pornography exposure with dangerous behaviors, causes those dangerous behaviors to be repeated, even when participants are warned of t…

The extreme danger of marijuana and its role as a “gateway drug” was also extensively studied and “proven” by a handful of moralist researchers and groups who had an agenda to push. The highly biased “researchers” who pursued this were often directly funded by the US government.

And now? This research has been debunked. It’s likely bad for people prone to mental illness, especially when taken regularly and in excess, and even stable people shouldn’t overdo it, much like alcohol. But it’s not going to cause lasting harm to most people.

Regarding porn, your argument from authority is extremely suspect. Porn is considered morally suspect due to lingering Puritan values, and if there is a research deficit (which I doubt) then it is likely because reputable researchers avoid the topic due to reputational damage. Sex researchers in general have often faced harassment, targeted government inquiries, and threats. So in short, I don’t believe you here.

I haven’t personally met anyone whose life was negatively affected by porn, except for a couple of people who were in relationships where one partner considered porn to be a form of infidelity. Utterly ridiculous from my perspective.

Edit: Total bunk. After looking into it, reputable meta-studies have showed no link between porn and sexual violence, ED, or mental health issues. It’s trivial to find this research, search for it if you care.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#174

Post by inkcapmushroom »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #101
dakiol wrote: post #65

I’ve noticed that many people struggle to simply let things go. Take a hypothetical case where HN requires ID verification. I'd just stop using HN, even if that meant giving up checking tech news. Sometimes things end, and that's fine. I used to watch good soccer matches on public TV. When services like DAZN appeared, only one major match was available each weekend on public TV. Later, none were free to watch unless…

> I’ve noticed that many people struggle to simply let things go Because it's not always about their entertainment. I know churches that post info about events only on WhatsApp groups, if you don't use it - you're screwed. I know kindergardens which use Facebook Messenger groups to send announcements to their parents' children - if you don't use it, you will miss important info. For most people, letting go such thing…

I have a similar problem, I do swing dancing and all the information for dances in my area are exclusively posted on Facebook by a wide variety of people who are putting on the dances. I can try and go to each individual organizing a dance and try and get them off Facebook, but that's making their job harder when we've already had lots of people stop organizing events post-COVID, and the system they have now seems to really work for getting new people into dancing that haven't done it before with lots of new faces each dance. So I just go along with it.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#175

Post by benbristow »

mlinster wrote: post #48

I think that age verification is important. While its not perfect, it is one tool to help protect kids.

In an ideal world, parents would be good parents, know what their kids are up to, install parental controls on their digital devices (software solutions out there range from free/bundled to not expensive), have conversations with kids about what's on the internet and what to avoid.

Government overreach is not the answer, it's a plaster (and an excuse for more surveillance which is arguably the primary factor) over bad parenting. In the UK at least, all major ISPs and mobile providers have a basic parental/adult-content control package that is set-up by default (opt-out by the bill payer). Albeit trivial to get around with a VPN/proxy or changing DNS servers etc.

Kids will be kids as well. They'll get around restrictions, they're clever, they talk with their mates in the playground about this sort of thing. Especially teens.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#176

Post by kreco »

idopmstuff wrote: post #170
thewebguyd wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly fear the harm that will be done before legislators realize what they’ve created. Not defending the legislation as I overwhelmingly disagree with it, but if I recall, I don't think any of the age verification legislation specifies a specific implementation of how to verify age. Requiring photos, or photo ID, or any other number of methods being employed, were all decided on by the various private companies.…

How would you suggest they verify age? I am not aware of a good way to do it from a privacy and security perspective.

You can take a look at what Switzerland is about to do:

https://www.homburger.ch/de/insights/swiss-voters-approve-ne...!

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#177

Post by cortesoft »

ryandrake wrote: post #27

My kid has recently just quit playing Roblox because of the sketchy facial age check process. She said that her and all her friends know not to ever upload a picture of themselves to the Internet (good job, fellow Other Parents!!) so they're either moving on to other games or just downloading stock photos of people from the internet and uploading those (which apparently works). What a total joke. These companies need…

Having to manage my kids online accounts have been a nightmare. So many different rules, with arbitrary age limits on things that go completely against my own rules for what my kids can do at different ages, with weird methods for linking or verifying or sharing/transferring purchases. I have gotten so frustrated trying to get accounts set up so we can play together.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#178

Post by jacobsenscott »

irusensei wrote: post #84
ryandrake wrote: post #27

My kid has recently just quit playing Roblox because of the sketchy facial age check process. She said that her and all her friends know not to ever upload a picture of themselves to the Internet (good job, fellow Other Parents!!) so they're either moving on to other games or just downloading stock photos of people from the internet and uploading those (which apparently works). What a total joke. These companies need…

I think the way Roblox is doing right now separating the users in age groups just makes it easier for predators to find victim.

Governments and corporations are never interested in protecting children - they don't vote, and they don't have money. So making it "easier for predators to find victims" is not a failure of the policy.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#179

Post by fuzzzerd »

mythrwy wrote: post #62
zahlman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't gotten it yet on my account from 2006. Maybe it matters whether it's a brand account? Maybe it matters whether the accounts actually are connected?

well as long as it's you logging in, they know you are minimum 20 years old!

As opposed to a child uploading a selfie of an adult on a new account.

Re: So, you’ve hit an age gate. What now?

#180

Post by SoftTalker »

pc86 wrote: post #43
SoftTalker wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next step: the same government that is demanding the age verification will ban VPNs.

Everyone seems to forget that using VPNs to violate your local laws gives lots of good ammo to the authoritarians that want to ban VPNs. The answer isn't to use a VPN to get around it (and thus give fodder to your enemies) but to change the law.

But it's easier to ask a relative few ISPs to block VPNs than it is to police the behavior of millions of individuals.
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