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Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

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Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#271

Post by rsynnott »

tim333 wrote: post #179
CalRobert wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For more amusement, look to Limerick, in Ireland, whose council tried to mandate all new homes have chimney stacks.

In Ireland all the rooms came with a substantial hole in the wall, mandated in case you decided to put something like a kerosene heater in your room, although the heating was electical. I generally had to block them off to stop the wind whistling through.

That's more for ventilation to prevent damp etc (Ireland has humidity issues). Modern houses typically have MVHR instead.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#272

Post by Koffiepoeder »

lm28469 wrote: post #83
SPICLK2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China already has one (if we're insisting on solar power generation) - 700,000 sq. mi of desert. It's also not just aesthetic - flat terrain is just so much more practical.

> flat terrain is just so much more practical. Outside of peak summer it's much more optimal to have a south facing slope actually.

Additionally, solar panels can become too hot and that reduces their efficiency. Also, deserts are famously known for dust. Since it rarely rains, you get a dust buildup, further compromising solar efficiency in deserts.

I'm not saying that deserts are a bad place for solar. What I'm trying to say is - it's often worse than people think and it requires special infrastructure.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#273

Post by ragazzina »

ebruchez wrote: post #209
samiv wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With China's huge resources both natural and human it's only expected that China will again reclaim its position as the leading country in science, technology, production and generally everything. If you assume that .5% of population are "einsteins" then China has 7.5m einsteins who are now able to access universities and advance sciences whether it's AI or solar power or self driving cars. There's no doubt about the…

> There's just no way to deny this. Of course there is "way". All the above above in itself sounds like propaganda. You forget other political (authoritarian system making massive mistakes), demographic (1.0, probably less in reality, birth per woman), psychological (disillusioned young population), and geographic (food and other imports) aspects, among other things.

> authoritarian system making massive mistakes

Compared to the US democracy?

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#274

Post by lostlogin »

Rover222 wrote: post #235
lostlogin wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point at criticism from the left? I haven’t noticed it.

Mostly just saying the sentiment I've seen on reddit comments or X posts, stuff like this: https://x.com/duncancampbell/status/1647109450438955008 I'm not saying the idea is institutionalized by the democrats, but I think musk/tesla hatred is kinda driving it

That would be a weird way to get at Musk, as there’s plenty out there that avoids his toxic touch.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#275

Post by specialist »

jbl0ndie wrote: post #132
yeureka wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read, and recommend a book titled "Here Comes the Sun" by Bill McKibben. There's a passage where a calculation is made of the amount of minerals that have to be mined in order to build renewable energy to cover all current energy needs. This quantity is huge. However it is equivalent in mass to the amount of fossil fuels that are extracted every year. The major difference is that the equipment for renewabl…

Only there is no forever when you're talking about a finite resource, like fossil fuels.

They're talking about our nascent circular economy.

Recycling now recovers >95% of raw minerals (and will continue to improve).

The learning curves for battery and solar tech will more than make up the for the shortfall.

Meaning at some point in the near future (2050 IIRC), humanity will have mined all the lithium it'll ever need.

Also, in the same time frame, it'll be economical to mine our garbage dumps. Further reducing the need to extract raw materials.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#276

Post by specialist »

MarceliusK wrote: post #127
roxolotl wrote: post #21

It genuinely makes me so sad to see the US not doing the same. Having grown up to the constant beat of “energy independence” as the core goal of a party it seemed obvious that the nearly limitless energy that rains down from the sky would be the answer. But instead we’ve kept choosing the option which requires devastating our, and other’s around the world, community. That’s not to exclude the harsh reality of mining…

The rhetoric around "energy independence" always sounded like it was pointing exactly toward renewables, and it's hard not to see the missed opportunity in hindsight

I vividly recall an episode of Dallas where Bobby was rationalizing to his brother JR about investing in renewables.

For a brief window of time our consensus for decarbonization extended all the way to (the most) popular media.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#278

Post by NickC25 »

expedition32 wrote: post #128
roxolotl wrote: post #21

It genuinely makes me so sad to see the US not doing the same. Having grown up to the constant beat of “energy independence” as the core goal of a party it seemed obvious that the nearly limitless energy that rains down from the sky would be the answer. But instead we’ve kept choosing the option which requires devastating our, and other’s around the world, community. That’s not to exclude the harsh reality of mining…

The US invented fracking. Arguably the US is energy independent. It has Texas, Canada and Venezuela. They never did discover any large oilfields in China despite decades of frantically searching for it.

Canada fucking hates the US right now and are actively in discussions to deepen their relationship with China, and cut back on their relationship with the US.

I don't blame them.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#279

Post by nullocator »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #87
zipy124 wrote: post #74

It is incredible to see just how many big-oil talking points there are in this thread. From renewable energies resource costs, to their land use impact. I didn't realise just how effective their propaganda was in the tech space till reading this thread. That is not to say that these projects should be free of criticism, but anyone who believes these negatives are remotely close to the damage that fossil fuels are doi…

I was just about to make precisely the same comment. The fear, uncertainty, and doubt about renewables here is ridiculous, and I expected better. I suppose everyone watched too much Landman . China is rocketing ahead in every domain possible, from resource and financial independence, to infrastructure in terms of high-speed rail, bridges, roads, advanced fission reactors and bleeding-edge fusion research. Heavy indus…

Landman is fascinating because it goes out of its way to bring up valid claims about renewables or criticisms of oil/gas but then spits an insane amount of propaganda and lies at you in quick succession to falsely "debunk" these criticisms or sweep them under the rug. This is definitely not being done for the character's benefit in the show, so its quite impressive how effectively and frequently its tossed in there.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#280

Post by gs17 »

Y-bar wrote: post #60
vages wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suspect they are floating on pontoons.

You can see the pillars they are built on in for example https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-13/china-s-s... (direct link to image: https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iy93Jvbye2e... ) Solar panels are meant to be water proof, after all they are meant to survive rain storms and melting snow and coastal weather.

"meant to survive rain storms" doesn't really mean the same as "meant to survive flooding", especially not "meant to survive flooding with salt water". For example, a car survives outdoor weather year-round, but you probably wouldn't want to buy one that was submerged in a flood zone. This plant seems to be floating, though, so they stay above water regardless.
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