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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#551

Post by reaperducer »

embedding-shape wrote: post #315
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets

A riot is exactly what they want.

This is all about getting locals upset enough to break things, so the administration can justify sending in the military.

Rioting just gives them what they want.

This is a tried-and-true tactic employed by thugs throughout history.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#552

Post by potato3732842 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #448
SilverElfin wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this idea that boiling over lets them double down, but at the same time, it is not acceptable to let them keep doing what they do. Once the government starts using physical violence against the people and openly violating constitutional law, there is no choice, but to push back. But that pushback can look different. Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city.

> Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city. Yes, this tends to be really effective, especially when you're fighting the upper-class, which is more or less what's happening here as far as I can tell. Get all the cleaners, cooks, hotel workers and other "servants" to strike, pool up to fund a salary-light for them while they strike, and you'll see changes quickly as the uppe…

>Yes, this tends to be really effective, especially when you're fighting the upper-class, which is more or less what's happening here as far as I can tell.

You're not fighting the upper class. It's the blue collar workers and the people who hire them who support ICE and strict immigration.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#553

Post by basket_horse »

foobiekr wrote: post #515
basket_horse wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because they show people how to use their software they’re evil?

They aren't just showing people how to use their software. Stop defending the bad guys.

I’m not defending the “bad guys”. The original argument was about moral culpability based on distance from the bad deed. Microsoft could have just as easily refused Azure for the ICE contract, but they didn’t, yet somehow they are just far enough away to not be culpable.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#554

Post by ceejayoz »

mosura wrote: post #498
ceejayoz wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll ask more directly, then, I suppose. Do you believe Trump should be immune to those felony convictions? Are you… selective in which laws you like?

When you have accepted there is a need to enforce immigration law, starting with removing those without existing legal status, we can proceed.

This is one of those times a non-answer is a pretty clear answer. Thanks.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#555

Post by willmarch »

RickJWagner wrote: post #497
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

[flagged]

There are plenty of examples of peaceful protestors being attacked by ICE and Americans being locked up simply for not producing papers on demand.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#556

Post by mrguyorama »

mosura wrote: post #29
pstuart wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress has been neutered and there's been efforts to ensure that it stays that way.

It isn’t new though. The whole reason it is such a mess now is it was equally deliberately ignored for decades.

Obama was "Deporter in chief"

You are just wrong.

America didn't even really have borders for most of it's existence, as the very idea of a Nation wasn't really a thing until into the 1800s.

We had a purposely pourous border with Mexico until relatively recently.

How many mexican immigrants do you happen to think live in Minneapolis?

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#557

Post by brightball »

pstuart wrote: post #502
brightball wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to defend the HN "no politics" rule here. The reason "no politics" zones exist is because there are enough people going out of their way to shout at everybody, everywhere, in every corner of the internet and enough people are tired of it that they flock to...no politics zones. In real life, a person like that confronts you...you remove yourself from the situation, because that person who can't stop shouting…

There's a vast difference between tribal partisan politics and discussing policy as a system of governance (hacking society). I do my best to avoid the former and embrace the latter. That said, there's a disappointingly significant number of HN members who hew to the latter and embrace the current regime. I consider this to be a forum of intellectual engagement, and that those people walk amongst us is quite distress…

The “those people” comment is kinda the issue though isn’t it?

I generally try to assume that everyone has good intentions, but we’re all being fed massive amounts of different information. I learned years ago that it wasn’t an issue of people reporting things that were factually inaccurate, it was an issue of people leaving out details to frame the story in the context that supports your readers/viewers belief system.

And then there are the Stanford studies like this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46553818

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#558

Post by edaemon »

alex43578 wrote: post #526
edaemon wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not actually true. YouGov's poll shows only 34% of Americans believe ICE's operations are making America safer: https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53878-more-americ...

Polling from them says about half of Americans have an unfavorable view of ICE, a far better rating than Congress, for example at 80% disapprove. So you’ve got a swath of people who are fine with what ICE is doing, or don’t care to even make their dissatisfaction known via a survey, much less the ballot box or via a riot.

You said "Don’t forget half the population (within polling MOE) supports this, believing ICE/ removal operations are making America safer...".

That's not true. Barely a third of Americans believe that. Nearly half of Americans want ICE outright abolished.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#559

Post by biophysboy »

alex43578 wrote: post #473
SilverElfin wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this idea that boiling over lets them double down, but at the same time, it is not acceptable to let them keep doing what they do. Once the government starts using physical violence against the people and openly violating constitutional law, there is no choice, but to push back. But that pushback can look different. Personally, I think that needs to be a massive general strike across every major city.

[flagged]

On the other hand, the gov using violence to break the law (e.g. detaining citizens who have committed no crimes under the pretense of immigration enforcement) is not silly.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#560

Post by asa400 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #315
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question.

There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it.

Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personalist paramilitary organization, and the president has indicated that these ICE agents are immune from consequences, even if they kill people. These are people who volunteered knowing they were going to go into American cities and do violence to people they perceive as their political enemies.

Most of these agents are inexperienced, jittery, poorly trained new recruits away from home. They aren't locals. Their nexus of power and governance isn't local. These are not our community members, they aren't from here, they don't know us or care about us, so they do not empathize with us.

In addition to this, the American citizenry is shockingly well armed. Because everyone involved is so well armed, everybody is slightly touchy about this descending into rioting, because there is a very short path from light rioting to what would essentially amount to civil war. The costs of such any such violence will overwhelmingly be borne by the innocent people who live here, and we know it.

So, people are trying to strike a balance of making sure these people know they aren't welcome here while trying to prevent the situation from spiraling into one in which some terrified agent mag-dumps a crowd of protestors and causes a chain reaction that results in truly catastrophic mass death.

Wish us luck, we're trying.

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